Does Corzine deserve to get re-elected?

[Smash255]

The state is in much better financial shape than it was when he took over, probably the best financial shape its been in over a decade.

[Smash255]

The state is in much better financial shape than it was when he took over, probably the best financial shape its been in over a decade.

And on what basis do you make this claim? It can't be the sham budget that he proposed this year.

Sham budget??  He drastically cut the deficit without raising taxes by cutting wasteful spending.  Silly me for thinking thats the type of fiscal responsibility Republicans believed in.....

[Smash255]

The state is in much better financial shape than it was when he took over, probably the best financial shape its been in over a decade.

And on what basis do you make this claim? It can't be the sham budget that he proposed this year.

Sham budget??  He drastically cut the deficit without raising taxes by cutting wasteful spending.  Silly me for thinking thats the type of fiscal responsibility Republicans believed in.....

Uh, did you read the first post? Corzine is proposing a two billion dollar spending increase.

Stop being the stupid hack that you are for once.

- Proposes a budget with no tax increase, but a two BILLION dollar spending decrease... that's a great idea.
 

Before calling me a hack for not reading the first post maybe you should read what Assad actually posted

[Smash255]

The state is in much better financial shape than it was when he took over, probably the best financial shape its been in over a decade.

And on what basis do you make this claim? It can't be the sham budget that he proposed this year.

Sham budget??  He drastically cut the deficit without raising taxes by cutting wasteful spending.  Silly me for thinking thats the type of fiscal responsibility Republicans believed in.....

Uh, did you read the first post? Corzine is proposing a two billion dollar spending increase.

Stop being the stupid hack that you are for once.

- Proposes a budget with no tax increase, but a two BILLION dollar spending decrease... that's a great idea.
 

Before calling me a hack for not reading the first post maybe you should read what Assad actually posted

So he gets points off for mixing up "increase" and "decrease." You're still a hack for pulling points out of the sky like "no tax hikes" and "cuts in wasteful spending" without stating the whole situation.

Hey I just based it off Assad's own post.  Anyway it doesn't change the fact he inherited a deficit and now the state is operating under a surplus.

[Smash255]

That 2 billion dollar spending increase is the tax cut. durrrr

What?

Oh, and Smash, New Jersey does NOT have a surplus. None. I don't know where you got that from. A recent AP article even went as far as to highlight the record surpluses of a record 48 states -- the only other state to not have a surplus is Louisana... and they have an excuse.

Tried to look it up, but its in the archives so you have to pay for it.  the NY Times had an article a couple weeks ago about the financial situation of each & every state, in 2006 NJ posted a surplus of $1.9 million

[Smash255]

Here are some of his accomplishments:

Civil Unions, expect gay marriage within a year.
First budget in 6 years with no new taxes, tax increase
$2,300,000,000  in tax relief
20% reduction in property taxes in new budget
Ban on dual office holding
Strongest global warming bill in the country
Government transparency, "christmas tree" gifts (earmarks) available to view online
Stem Cell research referendum
Significant tax cut for low income families, described as "a double tax cut"

The ones in bold are certainly not accomplishments by my standards.  Aside from, the dual office ban has not taken effect, my property taxes are going up 24%, so really he does nothing according to your list

The ones in bold also happen to be supported by the overwhelming majority of New Jerseyans except for gay marriage which is just a majority. Those are only for this year so far. Also the ban on dual office holding was just signed into law or will be before the 30th. As for your property taxes, I doubt they went up 24% and you should expect your tax cut soon.
Since 1996, my property taxes have gone up by 50%, which is ridiculous. So I doubt yours have gone up by 24% in just one year.

I strongly advise you ask someone you know that lives in this area, because my taxes are going up 24%, although I doubt there is an article about it online.

Thats about as likely to be true as you being a libertarian. 

[Smash255]

Here are some of his accomplishments:

Civil Unions, expect gay marriage within a year.
First budget in 6 years with no new taxes, tax increase
$2,300,000,000  in tax relief
20% reduction in property taxes in new budget
Ban on dual office holding
Strongest global warming bill in the country
Government transparency, "christmas tree" gifts (earmarks) available to view online
Stem Cell research referendum
Significant tax cut for low income families, described as "a double tax cut"

The ones in bold are certainly not accomplishments by my standards.  Aside from, the dual office ban has not taken effect, my property taxes are going up 24%, so really he does nothing according to your list

The ones in bold also happen to be supported by the overwhelming majority of New Jerseyans except for gay marriage which is just a majority. Those are only for this year so far. Also the ban on dual office holding was just signed into law or will be before the 30th. As for your property taxes, I doubt they went up 24% and you should expect your tax cut soon.
Since 1996, my property taxes have gone up by 50%, which is ridiculous. So I doubt yours have gone up by 24% in just one year.

I strongly advise you ask someone you know that lives in this area, because my taxes are going up 24%, although I doubt there is an article about it online.

Thats about as likely to be true as you being a libertarian. 

Finally you acknowledge!  However, my property taxes are going up 24%, which I guess is not really a state issue, however, I don't need any new state taxes when my property taxes are like that.  Are the town's reassesment last year we have gone through the roof.  When my parents moved in in the late 80s, the taxes were about $4,000 and next year they will be about $14,000

Dude, your property taxes?  Aren't you sixteen?

Yeah, so?  How much disposable income my family has effects things like what kind of car I will get next year when I drive and what things I can afford to buy without having to get a job. 

1.  If they are paying $14,000 in property taxes the home is worth close to $1,000,000 if not more

2.  Its not as much of a state issue as town and county issue, or school tax issue.  Even so a 24% increase makes no sense, unless they did some major renovation you are not telling us about.

3.  Their is property tax relief.  However that relief is towards the middle and working class, those who need the relief not geared so some spoiled ass rich can get have his parents by him a nice car, and for him to be able to get what he wants without working.

[Smash255]

1.  If they are paying $14,000 in property taxes the home is worth close to $1,000,000 if not more

Not necessarily.  My parents pay slightly less in property taxes ($12k+), and have a home valued at slightly more than $500,000.

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Doug Forrester was attacked in 2002 and 2005 for a similar single year tax hike when he was mayor of West Windsor -- it had to do with an emergency capital expense.  Agreed: 24% tax increases (and that's a MASSIVE increase) are almost exclusively caused by major -- and urgent -- issues where the township's hands are often tied.

Though honestly, through my research, I can't find a Bergen County town whose property taxes have jumped 24% in the last year.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Being rich through home appreciation is not really being rich.

Not 100% sure of how exactly the NJ relief went into effect, but I believe its similar to the Star Program in NY, which is based off income.

[Smash255]

Again, I strongly disagree with you.  Most people get very attached to their hometowns.  Especially if they've been living there for 30+ years, which would almost have to be the case to have a million dollar home.

There isn't exactly a huge trend towards downsizing, except among retirees, and downsizing is a tradition there, anyway.

So then you agree that people will have a home that can be worth over a million and yet they can still be lower middle class? Because you just made the case.

No, I really think you're reading a lot more into that than is actually there.

Here's the problem with "lower middle class" families living in a $1,000,000 home: the numbers really don't work out.

First, lower middle class is roughly defined as having a yearly income between $32,500–60,000, with a heavy emphasis on the lower end of the range.  For the purposes of this demonstration, I'll set the income level at $40,000/year.

First, payroll taxes.  Federal/state taxes will be at a minimum thanks to a healthy property tax deduction, but they'll still cost the hypothetical family $2,300/year ($40k income|$15k deduction for property tax|2 withholding allowances).  You can't avoid the flat Social Security/Medicare/NJ Unemployment taxes, and they add up to an additional $3,430/year.

If they're living in a million dollar home, they've had to have been there for at least thirty years, so they probably won't have a mortgage payment at this point.  We'll assume the cost of that is zero.  (Which is good, becuase they wouldn't be able to afford one, as you'll soon see.)

First, property taxes on a place like that would probably be close to $15,000/year.  I'm not going to take into account any NJ Saver Rebates or the like, because they're unreliable to say the least.

Next, you'll need homeowners insurance, and coverage on a $1,000,000 home is pricey.  $4,000/year is not an unreasonable estimate (~0.033% monthly).

Second, maintenance will be a huge factor.  If they've been around the home for 30+ years, it will be in a near constant need for repairs (unless it was recently completely renovated, in which case there'd be a significant recurring loan payment).  In general, the estimate is that you'll spend 1% of the purchase price on repairs/maintenance every year.  That's probably exaggerated here, but still, an aging house will need a new roof, a new furnace, electrical work, painting/siding, etc.  You don't see too many million dollar homes in disrepair.  Let's budget a fourth of the recommended amount for this, $2,500/year.

Oh, and utilities.  Maybe $75/month on electricity; $50/month on cable; $40/month on phone; $2,000/year on gas (heat/hot water); another $400/year on sewer/water.  Hopefully, trash pickup is part of the property taxes for this poor family.  That's $4,380 per year total.

Already, we've eaten up $31,610 (79% of income) in taxes and home expenses alone.  We're not even talking commuting expenses (how many Bergen County residents can walk to work?), food, clothing, doctor's visits/prescription drugs (an increasingly large chunk of change for a family that's old enough to have stayed in one house for 30 years)...

...I'd say that a "lower middle class" family owning a $1,000,000 house is very very VERY rare indeed, even in New Jersey.

Your case is the strongest, as you are the first to bring taxes into the equation! Who would have thought! In a side note, not that is really puts much of a damper on your case but, you probably won't be able to get this information by yourself, 2 homes for sale in Saddle River one for 1.25 mill and the other for 1.29 mill have property taxes of $7,490 and $6,515 respectively. Odd to note that the second home is on the market for more money, yet its property taxes are lower. This is because its assessed building value is lower than the others. A home worth 2.8 has property taxes of $16,410.

Its the same thing here on Long Island, even homes assessed at a higher value can have lower property taxes, in part due to the School District.  For example I live near the school district border of Massapequa and Farmingdale.  Two homes in my area just sold, the one in the Farmingdale School district for $520,000 and the one in the Massapequa School district for $555,000.  Both homes were sold above the assessed value, both with a Massapequa Park mailing address, but technically East Massapequa.

The one in the Massapequa school district was assessed at about $30,000 higher, however paid $1,400 less in property taxes (without taking into account the various exceptions and exemptions) than the one in the Farmingdale school district.   However despite being sold for less and assessed for less, the taxes in the Farmingdale district was about $1,450 higher than the one in the Massapequa district. This is due to the fact their are many more higher end homes in Massapequa than in Farmingdale.

[Smash255]

Smash, it's real easy, you only like hiim because you have a good governor and don't have to deal with this retard

Sorry little boy, but just because someone has property tax relief which focuses on making those in the middle and working class lives easier as opposed to policies which make it easier for a spoiled rich kid's parents to buy him a nicer car and so that spoiled rich kid can buy what he wants without getting a job does not make the guy a retard.  You lost all credibility to bitch about Corzine when those were some of the reasons you gave for disliking him.

[Smash255]

Smash, it's real easy, you only like hiim because you have a good governor and don't have to deal with this retard

Sorry little boy, but just because someone has property tax relief which focuses on making those in the middle and working class lives easier as opposed to policies which make it easier for a spoiled rich kid's parents to buy him a nicer car and so that spoiled rich kid can buy what he wants without getting a job does not make the guy a retard.  You lost all credibility to bitch about Corzine when those were some of the reasons you gave for disliking him.

Those weren't reasons I gave for disliking him, those were reasons I gave for why taxes effected me, you should probably actually read what I say.  However, the point remains it's really easy to sit in NY and say you like this guy.

The problem is that you haven't actually given any reasons that you don't like him other than "OMG my taxes are going up!!!1111"

He's raised the sales tax, created a budget standstill, approved of the civil unions and represents all that is wrong about the Democratic machine in NJ.  Codey should be the governor and I think it would only be justice for him to take what is rightfully his.

You really like Codey too much. Codey is part of the machine and has been a big part of blocking ethics legislation. Corzine isn't close to the machines and that is apparent when he is clashing with his own democratic legislature. However, if you think the sales tax increase is so terrible, then you're just really cheap.  The budget standstill was at the fault of the legislature too.

Smash, it's real easy, you only like hiim because you have a good governor and don't have to deal with this retard

Sorry little boy, but just because someone has property tax relief which focuses on making those in the middle and working class lives easier as opposed to policies which make it easier for a spoiled rich kid's parents to buy him a nicer car and so that spoiled rich kid can buy what he wants without getting a job does not make the guy a retard.  You lost all credibility to bitch about Corzine when those were some of the reasons you gave for disliking him.

Even though he says he lives in a million dollar home, I don't think he thinks he is or even is rich. Anyway, if one does have a million dollar home, it still can take a lot of work and budget restraints to help your kid to get a car. Anyway, I don't think he is this spoiled little rich kid because he lives in Rutherford or East Rutherford, which according to the book of New Jerseyan Codes, isn't high up on anyones lists of places to live, no offense.

However, with the way he complained about his parents taxes going up leads me to believe that they make a large sum of $$ because if I'm not mistaken the property tax relief Corzine put forth is similar to what we have in NY, in which we have tax breaks based on the income levels, and it takes a rather large income not to qualify for the relief.  The only way his taxes can go up the amount he is suggesting would be a combination of a large jump in local, school taxes combined with an income level that is too high to qualify for the relief. 

So he either comes from a family with a lot of $$ or is flat out lying about the tax increase, possibly a combination of the two, but their is no way the taxes can go up the amount he is suggesting if the income level isn't quite high, not with the relief package Corzine  signed.