Something-gate: Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower.

[EnglishPete]

[Hindsight was 2020]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

[ApatheticAustrian]

]I don't know what your weird fascination with the 'Reagan Battalion' is? Of course you know that they're strongly pro-establishment so I don't know what the odd sarcastic "well-respected anti-mainstream" is supposed to be about.

ofc, they are - other then disgraced mainstream sources with WH credentials and elite access, like breitbart, fox news or inforwars/gateway pundit, an investigative and respected minorstream media for really interested people who want to get the facts without the typical spin.

[emailking]

The non-denial denial from Obama basically confirms this.

You've said this twice now, but it's not a "non-denial denial." It's a pretty clear denial. Speculate as you will about whether he ordered the wiretaps anyway...through innuendo or a wink of the eye or whatever you think happened. But if he did that would mean he lied. There's no wiggle room in any reasonable reading of his statement.

[Gass3268]

Senator Ben Sasse is calling on Trump to present evidence:

[EnglishPete]

]I don't know what your weird fascination with the 'Reagan Battalion' is? Of course you know that they're strongly pro-establishment so I don't know what the odd sarcastic "well-respected anti-mainstream" is supposed to be about.

ofc, they are - other then disgraced mainstream sources with WH credentials and elite access, like breitbart, fox news or inforwars/gateway pundit, an investigative and respected minorstream media for really interested people who want to get the facts without the typical spin.

There is nowhere for people who just want the facts without spin.

Every outlet large or small has a point of view, they all has an agenda. None are entirely trustworthy, all must be treated sceptically and their claims examined based on the evidence and reasoning behind them.

If you want a news outlet who you can just trust to give the facts straight you are out of luck. You will not find such an outlet. Not in the 'mainstream media' not in the 'alternative media' not on 'social media'. Not one.

[EnglishPete]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

[Virginiá]

One thing we have to be careful of is automatically assuming that one side is fact and the other is speculation. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are opinions not facts.

Liberals often set up their arguments as facts when, in actuality, they are opinions.

Oh give me a break. If you want to talk about opinions vs facts, how about we talk about how Trump supporters have been taking Donald's words and rambling conspiracies as gospel for over a year now, at almost cult-like levels.

[EnglishPete]

Senator Ben Sasse is calling on Trump to present evidence:

Yep. All these nonsense 'russia' allegations were coming out in well timed dribs and drabs. Now the water tank and its going to have to get drained all at once. Lets see what's lurking inside.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

Yes it is the FBI can go to the FISA an get a warrant to tape Trump's phone by themselves

[EnglishPete]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

Yes it is the FBI can go to the FISA an get a warrant to tape Trump's phone by themselves

In theory.

In reality that's not how things work at that level of politics. In the US or anywhere else.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

Yes it is the FBI can go to the FISA an get a warrant to tape Trump's phone by themselves

In theory.

In reality that's not how things work at that level of politics. In the US or anywhere else.

Nope but nice try if you are going to dismiss all the evidence against Trump to in turn believe his baseless accusation against Obama because of "in reality" is beyond partisan hypocrisy

[hopper]

Republicans are stuck on MUH OBAMA and MUH HILLURUH, completely unaware that they have the reigns now, and that they have to back up their bark with actual policy legislation (supposedly for the people).

How's that going for you?

Since they don't control the executive (that's controlled by an independent and cronies), they don't have the reigns at all. Of course they are too politically dumb to point this out.

The Republicans own the insane wanna-be dictator they nominated and elected.

The Republicans on the hard-right used to call Obama a dictator. I think Trump overall is as hated by Democrats as Obama was with Conservatives Republicans.

Trump's own press secretary has described his government as dictatorship.

And the GOP is backing him to the hilt. They own him. And it's going to destroy them. Hopefully forever.

I don't wish the Democrats would destroy themselves like you do with the Republicans  because I want a 2 party system that actually works and functions.

I don't know where you trying to get at that the GOP owns Trump. Can you explain more?

[EnglishPete]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

Yes it is the FBI can go to the FISA an get a warrant to tape Trump's phone by themselves

In theory.

In reality that's not how things work at that level of politics. In the US or anywhere else.

Nope but nice try if you are going to dismiss all the evidence against Trump to in turn believe his baseless accusation against Obama because of "in reality" is beyond partisan hypocrisy

What evidence against Trump? There hasn't been any, just some weak sauce nothingburgers.

As for 'baseless accusations' no one is disputing that the Trump campaign was wiretapped. The only question is is it believable that that would happen at that level of politics without being politically driven.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

Yes it is the FBI can go to the FISA an get a warrant to tape Trump's phone by themselves

In theory.

In reality that's not how things work at that level of politics. In the US or anywhere else.

Nope but nice try if you are going to dismiss all the evidence against Trump to in turn believe his baseless accusation against Obama because of "in reality" is beyond partisan hypocrisy

What evidence against Trump? There hasn't been any, just some weak sauce nothingburgers.

As for 'baseless accusations' no one is disputing that the Trump campaign was wiretapped. The only question is is it believable that that would happen at that level of politics without being politically driven.

Umm many top level officials despite he's be wiretapped but nice try

[EnglishPete]

Serious question EnglishPete are you from America or ever lived here? Cause if you did you'd know if Trump was tapped it wasn't Obama but the FBI who are separate from Obama's administration

Oh please, that's not how things work at that level of politics, in the US or anywhere else.

Yes it is the FBI can go to the FISA an get a warrant to tape Trump's phone by themselves

In theory.

In reality that's not how things work at that level of politics. In the US or anywhere else.

Nope but nice try if you are going to dismiss all the evidence against Trump to in turn believe his baseless accusation against Obama because of "in reality" is beyond partisan hypocrisy

What evidence against Trump? There hasn't been any, just some weak sauce nothingburgers.

As for 'baseless accusations' no one is disputing that the Trump campaign was wiretapped. The only question is is it believable that that would happen at that level of politics without being politically driven.

Umm many top level officials despite he's be wiretapped but nice try

Is that even English?

[Hindsight was 2020]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Just so we're clear the WH is acting not like they have evidence but that Trump just tweeted something he read online https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/838168420701114368

[Adam Griffin]

Do the Trumpsters care that Trump never has proof to back up all his wild claims?

No, because the same way those people come to conclusions is the same way Trump does; it revolves around the same dynamic as those who think "he tells it like it is".

Their opinions come from them stumbling across some click-bait blog post or quasi-news piece that is either totally false or so slanted as to be effectively such, followed by them saying something to the effect of "I knew it all along" (even when they didn't). They then begin to yell it from the rooftops without any evidence whatsoever. Sound familiar?

They love him for it - not in spite of it - because it's the same way their own feeble minds work. It's the natural progression of the TV Dinner generation, being raised to believe everything they see on a screen, as well as their sad little offspring who didn't manage to escape its clutches and inherited the condition wholesale because "muh traditions" have resulted in them shutting out any beneficial strengthening that an advanced society can provide with respect to critical thinking/worldview, leaving only that which existed decades ago rolling around in their heads.

As much as they like to cry about "fake news", they are by far the most susceptible to believing anything that flashes across a screen with pretty colors and crisp fonts.

[EnglishPete]

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Let me be extremely charitable and assume for the sake of discussion that Obama actually ordered an illegal, or at least ethically dubious, wiretap of Trumpp Tower.

Now, I ask you, in what universe of discourse would it not be the stupidest thing in the world for Trump to announce this fact at 5am without giving his confidants at least a heads up, if not actually take the time to vet the information and make certain that such a serious allegation could be backed up with real evidence?  Trump's total lack of impulse control renders him extremely vulnerable to someone leading him make a fool of himself by planting fake info into his news feed. This story is but further evidence that Trump is unfit to be president because of his incompetence.

Not only that, while up to now I considered it nothing more than a ultra-left-wing fantasy, it now looks like Trump may actually be demented enough in the medical sense of the term that serious thought may need to be given to invoking the 25th Amendment and letting Pence be Acting President while the Donald gets the mental health care he so desperately appears to need.  Pence isn't exactly who'd I want to be President - from a policy standpoint, I consider him worse than Trump - but at least he's indisputably in control of his mental faculties.

[Hermit For Peace]

Do the Trumpsters care that Trump never has proof to back up all his wild claims?

No, because the same way those people come to conclusions is the same way Trump does; it revolves around the same dynamic as those who think "he tells it like it is".

Their opinions come from them stumbling across some click-bait blog post or quasi-news piece that is either totally false or so slanted as to be effectively such, followed by them saying something to the effect of "I knew it all along" (even when they didn't). They then begin to yell it from the rooftops without any evidence whatsoever. Sound familiar?

They love him for it - not in spite of it - because it's the same way their own feeble minds work. It's the natural progression of the TV Dinner generation, being raised to believe everything they see on a screen, as well as their sad little offspring who didn't manage to escape its clutches and inherited the condition wholesale because "muh traditions" have resulted in them shutting out any beneficial strengthening that an advanced society can provide with respect to critical thinking/worldview, leaving only that which existed decades ago rolling around in their heads.

As much as they like to cry about "fake news", they are by far the most susceptible to believing anything that flashes across a screen with pretty colors and crisp fonts.

Thanks for the reality check. I keep forgetting that Trump's minions are alternative thinkers.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Breaking News:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/838102754971238401

[ApatheticAustrian]

Breaking News:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/838102754971238401

this is a first glimpse at a possible smoking gun.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Do the Trumpsters care that Trump never has proof to back up all his wild claims?

I think Trump must have the cards on this one.

It will come out that the FBI or CIA were listening in on Trump before the election.

Perfectly reasonable if you think about it. Trump needs to relax.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Do the Trumpsters care that Trump never has proof to back up all his wild claims?

I think Trump must have the cards on this one.

It will come out that the FBI or CIA were listening in on Trump before the election.

Perfectly reasonable if you think about it. Trump needs to relax.

Like the 3-5 illegal voters? Or the Massachusetts people bused into New Hampshire? Or his Hawaii investigation?