If IQ group differences will be proven to be genetic, how'd you feel about AA?

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist. It's common sense that education determines how intelligent someone is - go out into coal country or in the deepest parts of the deep south and you'll see this to be true. If you're (relatively) wealthy and can afford a good education you will be smarter than a poor person of any race. Also, I don't think IQ is the be-all, end-all measure of intelligence. People are uniquely smart or dumb in different ways, and scoring poorly on an IQ test doesn't make you an idiot, necesarily. It just means you're not good at taking an IQ test.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

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You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

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True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is. As for finding a better way to measure intelligence, I think it's pointless to try to measure intelligence in the first place, because you can be brilliant at one thing and an idiot at everything else. Maybe your IQ is above average but in reality your performance in school was average at best and you lack any semblance of common sense, like several people I know.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is.

True, there can certainly be some variation in one's performance on academic/IQ tests.

As for your friends, though, I wonder if your friends were good representations of wealthy Blacks and poor Whites. Indeed, how do you know that they weren't outliers?

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Oh, sure, one can have a high IQ and lack common sense. Alternatively, one can have a high IQ and be a vile, evil person like Hitler was.

Indeed, IQ certainly isn't everything. However, IQ does appear to have a lot of predictive validity when one looks at large groups of people:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/09/19/iq_and_success_can_a_test_score_determine_later_outcomes_in_life.html

Also, please keep in mind that I support a generous social safety net as well as (in the future) promoting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos) which will significantly raise IQ. Indeed, I think that such technologies should be free for poor and middle class people.

Frankly, my issue is allowing less qualified people to get jobs that other, more qualified people have applied for. For instance, I want the most qualified people to be my doctors because they would probably be the least likely to screw up with their surgeries, et cetera.

A few final points I'd like to make:
1; anyone who supports any kind of eugenics is awful.
2; I obviously don't know if the people I've known were good representatives of poor whites and wealthy blacks - I can only go on personal experience
3; if you're saying someone is less qualified for a job because of their race, that's textbook racism.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I'm confused. How is being poor genetic

I meant that having a low IQ is genetic.

Basically, right now, one can argue in favor of affirmative action on either economic or racial grounds by arguing that poor people/Blacks/Hispanics underperform on academic tests due to their poverty. However, if we will find out that the reason for this underperformance is genetic (just like Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish overperformance on academic/IQ tests could be genetic), then this argument in favor of affirmative action gets destroyed.

I think the argument you're making is absurd and borderline racist.

So, are the people who argue that the higher-than-average Ashkenazi Jewish average IQ might have a genetic basis to it racist? :

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18-story.html

Also, this article might be both interesting and useful for you:

http://akarlin.com/2012/04/race-denial-vs-racism-a-false-dichotomy/

Indeed, as the article above states, speculating that group differences in IQ might have a genetic basis to them and supporting a generous welfare state is much more humane than, say, believing that Blacks and Hispanics don't perform as well on academic tests because they don't try hard enough and opposing a generous social safety net is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You have to explain why exactly affluent Blacks underperform poor Whites--let alone wealthy Whites:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1995-SAT-Income2.png

You must be logged in to read this quote.

True, IQ isn't everything. However, if you have a better test for intelligence, please let me know.

Just speaking from personal experience, I've known very wealthy black people and dirt poor white people - and the wealthy black people obviously came across as more "educated" than the extremely poor white people. Now obviously I have no clue how these individuals did in school or on their SATs, but I personally did terribly in school but have been given an IQ test and scored 115, so perhaps how well you do in school doesn't always correlate to how smart someone is.

True, there can certainly be some variation in one's performance on academic/IQ tests.

As for your friends, though, I wonder if your friends were good representations of wealthy Blacks and poor Whites. Indeed, how do you know that they weren't outliers?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Oh, sure, one can have a high IQ and lack common sense. Alternatively, one can have a high IQ and be a vile, evil person like Hitler was.

Indeed, IQ certainly isn't everything. However, IQ does appear to have a lot of predictive validity when one looks at large groups of people:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2015/09/19/iq_and_success_can_a_test_score_determine_later_outcomes_in_life.html

Also, please keep in mind that I support a generous social safety net as well as (in the future) promoting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos) which will significantly raise IQ. Indeed, I think that such technologies should be free for poor and middle class people.

Frankly, my issue is allowing less qualified people to get jobs that other, more qualified people have applied for. For instance, I want the most qualified people to be my doctors because they would probably be the least likely to screw up with their surgeries, et cetera.

A few final points I'd like to make:
1; anyone who supports any kind of eugenics is awful.
2; I obviously don't know if the people I've known were good representatives of poor whites and wealthy blacks - I can only go on personal experience
3; if you're saying someone is less qualified for a job because of their race, that's textbook racism.

I would like to make a response to your points #1 and #3 here.

In regards to point #1, I would like to point out that what I am advocating here is completely voluntary. Indeed, parents can choose not to raise their children's IQs and thus decrease their chances of success in life. Frankly, I am certainly not advocating forcing anyone to do anything.

Indeed, I don't see anything wrong with allowing people to improve their children's odds of success in life by altering their genes while they are still embryos. After all, if your embryo had a gene for criminality, would you not want to remove this gene?

In regards to point #3 here, you are straw-manning me and putting words into my mouth. I certainly did not say that people should not be hired due to their race. Rather, I said that people should not be hired due to their IQ. Indeed, the two are not synonymous--after all, there are high-IQ people of every race and low IQ people of every race. Rather, what differs is the frequency of high and low IQ people for various races and ethnic groups (for instance, Jews are disproportionally represented among geniuses).

People should be hired based on their ability to do a given job, not based on their IQ. Look at all the idiots who are great at flipping burgers.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

Also, I agree with this.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

Also, I agree with this.

So do I, actually.

Also, as I have previously stated, I certainly support income redistribution to help poor and low IQ people as well as IQ-boosting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos and IQ selection for embryos) to allow people--everyone, but especially low IQ people--to have (very) high IQ children and descendants if that is what they want.

Indeed, it would certainly be a wonderful place if we will have 1 million or even 1 billion people of Albert Einstein's or John von Neumann's intelligence running around.

I want to clarify that I have no issue with parents being able to genetically modify embyros, as long as it isn't mandatory or Government-sanctioned  of course.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

So uh...after a thread about justifying racism, do we at least get to say the N-word again? That was like the only main benefit of Trump getting in - An expanded vocabulary.

That's one of my biggest reservations with the idea of this thread. The idea that blacks or Hispanics have lower IQs than whites is used by alt-right Nazis to justify their disgusting views on race.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Fun fact: I've read The Extended Phenotype and I was confused about the image macro posted above, given the book is not about race or politics. So I just downloaded the PDF and searched for the word "progressive", and what do you know? The quote doesn't appear in the book; and looking around it doesn't seem to be a Dawkins original.

How surprising, a Trumpist spreading fake news.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

It wouldn't make much difference; I'd still be largely against group-based preferences but in favor of efforts to recruit from underrepresented communities. Group differences in IQ are in terms of distributional averages, so it would tell you nothing about a particular individual.  It would just be even more reason to try to aim for an economy where people can have a decent living without necessarily having the kind of the skills that are associated with high IQ.

Also, I agree with this.

So do I, actually.

Also, as I have previously stated, I certainly support income redistribution to help poor and low IQ people as well as IQ-boosting technologies (such as gene editing for embryos and IQ selection for embryos) to allow people--everyone, but especially low IQ people--to have (very) high IQ children and descendants if that is what they want.

Indeed, it would certainly be a wonderful place if we will have 1 million or even 1 billion people of Albert Einstein's or John von Neumann's intelligence running around.

Large groups of smart people are dangerous and more likely to commit crimes. Intelligence inequality contributes to a healthy and balanced society.

So smart people will form evil genius gangs, or something similar?

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Are threads like these the reason NoTrump's previous incarnations were banned?

I believe his last account was banned because he talked about wanting to chop his balls off.