French presidential election, 2022

[Zinneke]

In the end he's disqualified and therefore he loses, but anyway Melenchon scored a string of 'moral victories'

https://twitter.com/Brevesdepresse/status/1513413043744559106?t=59WOej5gmhlKbS_6...

Same energy as Corbyn's "We won the argument" guardian hot op-ed following the 2019 election.

Meluche cultists in a nutshell




And then of course his number 2 coming out this morning saying the results showed that 2/3rds of the population disagreed with Macron...yeah mate but what does that make you?

Will Melenchon make an endorsement?

What I'm really interested in are the parliamentary elections, since they will have a huge impact on what the eventual winner can accomplish. French prez has less executive powers than POTUS as far as I know, and a veto can be overridden with simple majority.

He has a very clear stance : do not vote for Le Pen. That's actually at least clearer than in 2017.

Cohabitation is indeed a possibility. I think the Left will want to turn out.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

What I'm really interested in are the parliamentary elections, since they will have a huge impact on what the eventual winner can accomplish. French prez has less executive powers than POTUS as far as I know, and a veto can be overridden with simple majority.

I find it interesting how turnout for parliamentary elections have fallen in France are, and how it's almost inevitable that the winning presidents get a majority simply due to how demoralized their opponents are.

Is there any reason to think this election will break either trend ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm not sure if this is a serious question but central Paris is demographically not a great place for RN-style policies, just like the centres of most big cities. As above, those few on the right in such places are more likely to be of the Zemmour persuasion.

Saying that, her 5.54 there is slightly better than 2017, and would likely have been even higher without Zemmour being to her right.

I just don't really understand the difference between Zemmour and Le Penn in terms of policies and voters they attract, What is the main difference between their voters ?

Zemmour fundamentally appeals to voters who formed the core of the FN back in the 80s (and you could even go back all the way to Poujadism if you're so inclined). Basically small-business owner who are doing a decent living but hate having to pay taxes and hate immigrants, along with Pieds-noirs and people culturally affiliated with them, and a certain kind of hyper-reactionary high bourgeoisie. It is, in short, a deeply ideological far-right vote.

Le Pen's current voter base, by contrast, is much more #populist and concentrated in the lower-middle class and France's Average Jacques in mid-sized and small cities and exurbia. It's the quintessential vote of "peripheral France" which feels it's on the losing side of globalization.

Ok, so Zemmour is the more upper-crust kind of far-right while Le Penn is more a lower-middle down-trodden kind of far-right. How does this translate into policy differences? Is Zemmour's economic policy more focused on cutting taxes on the wealthy than Le Penn, are there any policy differecnes in terms of immigration or intergration of minorites ?

Zemmour is to her right on both economic issues and immigration/crime, yes. There is a lot of talk that his candidacy helped raise Le Pen's ceiling significantly, by making her seem tame and moderate on comparison. We'll see the extent to which that's true in two weeks, of course.

[Oryxslayer]

What I'm really interested in are the parliamentary elections, since they will have a huge impact on what the eventual winner can accomplish. French prez has less executive powers than POTUS as far as I know, and a veto can be overridden with simple majority.

I find it interesting how turnout for parliamentary elections have fallen in France are, and how it's almost inevitable that the winning presidents get a majority simply due to how demoralized their opponents are.

Is there any reason to think this election will break either trend ?

Only if Le Pen wins, then maybe we can talk about potential legislative oddities. If Macron does the expected, then the opposition will not just be demoralized, but more fragmented than ever. The contours of the results may change, but one would expect LREM dominance. 

[brucejoel99]

Will Melenchon make an endorsement?

Mélenchon begging his voters not to vote for Le Pen is as close to an endorsement of Macron as he'll ever willingly give.

[danny]

Expat results:

Macron 45,09%
Mélenchon 21,92%
Zemmour 8,67%
Jadot 8,17%
Le Pen 5,29%
Pécresse 4,20%
Hidalgo 2,50%
Dupont-Aignan 1,42%
Lassalle 1,20%
Roussel 0,65%
Poutou 0,63%
Arthaud 0,26%

Turnout 35,12% (valid 34,75%)

Is there a link for results by country?

[America Needs R'hllor]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Amazing. Got a source?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Expat results:

Macron 45,09%
Mélenchon 21,92%
Zemmour 8,67%
Jadot 8,17%
Le Pen 5,29%
Pécresse 4,20%
Hidalgo 2,50%
Dupont-Aignan 1,42%
Lassalle 1,20%
Roussel 0,65%
Poutou 0,63%
Arthaud 0,26%

Turnout 35,12% (valid 34,75%)

Is there a link for results by country?

They don't seem to be available on the official results page, sadly. I've seen some of them posted on Twitter, though (including the soul-crushingly depressing Israel ones posted earlier in this thread).

[LAKISYLVANIA]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Is he antisemitist?

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Is he antisemitist?

As stated above he got a lot of support in israel so I'd *assume* not.

[Zinneke]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Is he antisemitist?

As stated above he got a lot of support in israel so I'd *assume* not.

Yes he is a self hating antisémite. Holocaust Denier and uncle Tom (or I think the correct term is a Kapo). But obviously for strategic reasons public enemy number 1 must remain Muslims and Arabs.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Zemmour is absolutely an antisemite, and clearly some people should revise their assumptions about many Israelis (or at least French Israelis, in this case) as well.

[Vosem]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

How things stay the same, and yet how they change.

[Oryxslayer]

Data on the election broken down to lower level communes, arrondissements, and constituencies (someone wanted this) is now accessible on the govt data portal.

[Continential]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Amazing. Got a source?

https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20220411-france-probes-targeting-of-jews-in-election-canvassing-by-far-right-zemmour

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Would it be fair to compare Zemmour to Pat Buchanan and Le Pen to Trump? (Buchanan further right, sets stage for other candidate?)

[Velasco]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Is he antisemitist?

As stated above he got a lot of support in israel so I'd *assume* not.

Yes he is a self hating antisémite. Holocaust Denier and uncle Tom (or I think the correct term is a Kapo). But obviously for strategic reasons public enemy number 1 must remain Muslims and Arabs.

Are you implying Zemmour's islamophobia is not genuine? Lol

Describing Zemmour as a "self hating Jew" is a bit dumb and simplistic, imo. As far as I know Eric Zemmour does not deny his Jewish identity. The point is that Zemmour is a (far-right,  racist, extreme) French nationalist who believes France is the supteme value. In other words, Zemmour puts his Frenchiness ahead of his Jewishness. The former belongs to the public sphere andcthe latter belongs to the private sphere. In Zemmour's mind, any kind of particularism (ethnic or regional identity) is enemy of the Nation, which is One and Indivisible. Regional separatism and interests separated from those of the French Nation are unacceptable in Zemmour's view. In that regard, I see him as a far-right Jacobin

It's not surprising at all the success of a far-right islamophobic nationalist of Jewish heritage in Israel

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The only good thing about this election is Jadot & Pecresse failing to get 5%. Now they have to ask people to donate to finance their campaigns. Unfortunately, lots of people will be stupid enough to actually do that.

[Zinneke]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Is he antisemitist?

As stated above he got a lot of support in israel so I'd *assume* not.

Yes he is a self hating antisémite. Holocaust Denier and uncle Tom (or I think the correct term is a Kapo). But obviously for strategic reasons public enemy number 1 must remain Muslims and Arabs.

Are you implying Zemmour's islamophobia is not genuine? Lol

Describing Zemmour as a "self hating Jew" is a bit dumb and simplistic, imo. As far as I know Eric Zemmour does not deny his Jewish identity. The point is that Zemmour is a (far-right,  racist, extreme) French nationalist who believes France is the supteme value. In other words, Zemmour puts his Frenchiness ahead of his Jewishness. The former belongs to the public sphere andcthe latter belongs to the private sphere. In Zemmour's mind, any kind of particularism (ethnic or regional identity) is enemy of the Nation, which is One and Indivisible. Regional separatism and interests separated from those of the French Nation are unacceptable in Zemmour's view. In that regard, I see him as a far-right Jacobin

It's not surprising at all the success of a far-right islamophobic nationalist of Jewish heritage in Israel

No, you are right, Zemmour's character was formed by his family's background and so his Islamophobia is genuine. He believes that because Algeria under the FLN expelled pieds noirs and Jews that all Arabs are like that. But what I meant was his ascendancy is convenient given French political discourse is veering towards that rhetoric. They mention how halal butchers are taking over but nothing against ultra-Orthodx Haredi who self-segregate.

But I do think there is a lot of inner self hatred there. Not only of himself, just look at what an absolute pipsqueak the guy was in certain debates stuttering and chundering like a total beta. But also of his community ; Zemmour would be the kind of Israeli "nationalist" that despises 60-70% of Israel's population. In the end he thought that Petain was justified in giving foreign Jews, and saving French ones. So he would have been a Kapo, 100% he would have betrayed fellow Jews to save his own personalist political ambitions in such a scenario. So this man is an anti-Semite.

[DavidB.]

The only good thing about this election is Jadot & Pecresse failing to get 5%. Now they have to ask people to donate to finance their campaigns. Unfortunately, lots of people will be stupid enough to actually do that.

Pretty impressive hate for a candidate you probably agree with on 90% of the issues. Infighting on the French left has truly reached a level I thought only the Dutch right wing was capable of (sorry for Tenderposting).

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

lol Zemmour is being investigated because his campaign made a list of all French jews and he bought a list of their phone numbers to target them for his campaign.

Is he antisemitist?

As stated above he got a lot of support in israel so I'd *assume* not.

Yes he is a self hating antisémite. Holocaust Denier and uncle Tom (or I think the correct term is a Kapo). But obviously for strategic reasons public enemy number 1 must remain Muslims and Arabs.

Are you implying Zemmour's islamophobia is not genuine? Lol

Describing Zemmour as a "self hating Jew" is a bit dumb and simplistic, imo. As far as I know Eric Zemmour does not deny his Jewish identity. The point is that Zemmour is a (far-right,  racist, extreme) French nationalist who believes France is the supteme value. In other words, Zemmour puts his Frenchiness ahead of his Jewishness. The former belongs to the public sphere andcthe latter belongs to the private sphere. In Zemmour's mind, any kind of particularism (ethnic or regional identity) is enemy of the Nation, which is One and Indivisible. Regional separatism and interests separated from those of the French Nation are unacceptable in Zemmour's view. In that regard, I see him as a far-right Jacobin

It's not surprising at all the success of a far-right islamophobic nationalist of Jewish heritage in Israel

No, you are right, Zemmour's character was formed by his family's background and so his Islamophobia is genuine. He believes that because Algeria under the FLN expelled pieds noirs and Jews that all Arabs are like that. But what I meant was his ascendancy is convenient given French political discourse is veering towards that rhetoric. They mention how halal butchers are taking over but nothing against ultra-Orthodx Haredi who self-segregate.

But I do think there is a lot of inner self hatred there. Not only of himself, just look at what an absolute pipsqueak the guy was in certain debates stuttering and chundering like a total beta. But also of his community ; Zemmour would be the kind of Israeli "nationalist" that despises 60-70% of Israel's population. In the end he thought that Petain was justified in giving foreign Jews, and saving French ones. So he would have been a Kapo, 100% he would have betrayed fellow Jews to save his own personalist political ambitions in such a scenario. So this man is an anti-Semite.

I think a promient example of this was his attempt to both-sides the Dreyus Affair and claim there is serious doubt about his innocence.

[Logical]

[Pres Mike]

As an Muslim- American, I hope Macron wins.

[2952-0-0]

quelle surprise

[DavidB.]

But I do think there is a lot of inner self hatred there. Not only of himself, just look at what an absolute pipsqueak the guy was in certain debates stuttering and chundering like a total beta. But also of his community ; Zemmour would be the kind of Israeli "nationalist" that despises 60-70% of Israel's population. In the end he thought that Petain was justified in giving foreign Jews, and saving French ones. So he would have been a Kapo, 100% he would have betrayed fellow Jews to save his own personalist political ambitions in such a scenario. So this man is an anti-Semite.

Have to agree with this. For me, the proof was in his derogatory comments with regard to the victims (children) of the antisemitic terror attack in Toulouse, disapproving of the family's decision to have the children buried in Israel (where there are fewer maniacs desecrating Jewish graves than in France). According to Zemmour, being buried abroad means "you want to be considered a foreigner" and reject France. Absolutely vile, and it reveals both a deeply sick level of self-hatred and a complete lack of decorum: even if you happen to think this way, why would you ever say it? So incredibly painful to the surviving relatives. For these reasons I wouldn't have voted for him.

(Disagree with using the term "kapo" here though - kapos did horrible things but they were made to do horrible things by a murderous system that aimed to dehumanize Jews by making them do unspeakable things because they could lose their lives every second of the day. We cannot judge them as fortunately we have no idea what we would do in their place. On the other hand, Zemmour can chill on a yacht in Saint-Tropez every day of his life, no one forces him to talk sh**t about victims of terror attacks).