Palestine college student protest megathread

[GoTfan]

The reactions to these protests have been incredibly unhinged.

They have been overwhelmingly peaceful. The biggest examples of violence that I’ve seen (other than police action) have been counterprotestors throwing fireworks at the UCLA encampment.

Locking yourself in a university building is not violence. Pitching a tent on the quad or blocking a street are not violent acts. Civil disobedience = breaking the law in a non-violent way in order to draw attention to a larger issue.

I also haven’t seen any first-hand examples of antisemitism at the demonstrations.

Breaking the law in a non-violent way is not sacred.  You are breaking the law and will be punished accordingly.  I feel like we as a society in general have lost track of the point of non-violent protest and simply decided that anyone protesting is inherently sacred and good as long as it's "peaceful" -- and then stretched to great lengths the definition of "peaceful" and "non-violent".

Compounding matters is the fact that even when the protests do turn violent and hateful and otherwise non-peaceful, there's a common arsenal of defenses that get deployed no matter what:

• Those are just isolated examples and the "vast majority" of protests are "overwhelmingly" peaceful
• It wasn't really violence because I can just change the definition of what counts as violence
• All this violence is just outside agitators conducting false flag attacks to discredit the protests
• Well yeah but whatabout this other example of the other side being violence?  Will you condemn that?  Whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout (this is always the last resort of losers fighting a losing argument)

You are not entitled to choose which laws you will obey simply because you do it in the name of social protest.  That includes not only laws against violence and hate speech (which have been broken by countless anti-Jew protesters around the country) but also laws protecting property rights and the freedom of movement of other people.  Even if you were conducting the world's most peaceful and kindhearted protest, if Columbia University does not want you on its lawn then as a private institution that owns said lawn, it has the right to demand you leave, and if you disobey you are then trespassing and may be removed by whatever force proves necessary to remove you.  This is a basic tenet of human civilization that has held up for tens of thousands of years.

A lot of the Civil Rights Movement routinely broke the law. Would they have been criminals according to you?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Look at what these freaks did to the Portland state library. Thank god the police finally cleared the library and arrested these freaks

https://twitter.com/PortlandPolice/status/1786177913785847935

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1785909265204732079/mediaViewer?currentTwee...

[MyLifeIsYours]

Not going to link that grotesque clip of Dana Bush spouting lies about the protestors. Just read the words to read what gets said by the "objective" mainstream media.

CNN disgraceful propaganda.

[MyLifeIsYours]

Where's the condemnation from the press and politicians on the racism of the counter-protestors here?


https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1786223536446525567

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Where's the condemnation from the press and politicians on the racism of the counter-protestors here?


https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1786223536446525567

You can't pull a "Look, the other side is bad too" if you don't actually condemn the hundreds of documented cases of antisemitism, mass property damage, assault, etc from the mobs.

I do, so I can easily say screw this racist frat boy too!

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://vxtwitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1786119117000298652


This was based

[T'Chenka]

Where's the condemnation from the press and politicians on the racism of the counter-protestors here?

You can't pull a "Look, the other side is bad too" if you don't actually condemn the hundreds of documented cases of antisemitism, mass property damage, assault, etc from the mobs.

I do, so I can easily say screw this racist frat boy too!

Most pro-Palestine users condemn anti-semetism and assault / violence, genius. It should go without saying. Claiming or implying that the majority of the supporters of the protests support that stuff is just a strawman used to make us look bad. If the anti-protestors side wants to win the battle of ideas, operating in good faith is a prerequisite.

[Agafin]

Biden's speech was very good ngl. The far left will hate it (they hate everything) and the far right will not care. But I think the middle ~60% of the US, if they ever happen to listen to it, will agree.

[Agafin]

Don’t Forget the Backlash to the ’60s

...

The backlash against the left was a key part of the 1968 presidential race. Richard Nixon famously ran a campaign on “law and order” — highlighting both urban and campus unrest. One commercial featured scenes of protest, as Nixon argued that “in a system of government that provides for peaceful change, there is no cause that justifies a resort to violence.”

Alabama Gov. George Wallace was a lot more direct that year in his third-party bid. While racism was at the heart of his message, he also denounced student protesters as “silver spoon brats” who advocated “treason” and said of protesters, “Some of ’em lie down in front of my automobile, it’ll be the last thing they’ll ever wanna lie down in front of.”

The scenes of violence in Chicago outside the Democrats’ 1968 presidential convention, meanwhile, further contributed to the notion that left-wing lawlessness had gotten out of control. It was a nightmare event for Hubert Humphrey’s beleaguered presidential campaign, one where the public overwhelmingly sided with the Chicago police, not the demonstrators. (And, of course, guess where Democrats are holding their 2024 convention: Chicago.)

The political consequences of the upheaval became clear. While the doomed liberal campaigns of Eugene McCarthy and Robert Kennedy draw most of the focus in retrospectives of the era, the fact is that in November of 1968, Nixon and Wallace combined for 57 percent of the vote, close to the levels of historic landslide wins of LBJ in 1964 and Reagan in 1984.

...

source

Seeing how a lot of people like to point to the 1968 protests and say how they were "on the right side of history", this article is a good reminder of what actually came of those protests.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Don’t Forget the Backlash to the ’60s

...

The backlash against the left was a key part of the 1968 presidential race. Richard Nixon famously ran a campaign on “law and order” — highlighting both urban and campus unrest. One commercial featured scenes of protest, as Nixon argued that “in a system of government that provides for peaceful change, there is no cause that justifies a resort to violence.”

Alabama Gov. George Wallace was a lot more direct that year in his third-party bid. While racism was at the heart of his message, he also denounced student protesters as “silver spoon brats” who advocated “treason” and said of protesters, “Some of ’em lie down in front of my automobile, it’ll be the last thing they’ll ever wanna lie down in front of.”

The scenes of violence in Chicago outside the Democrats’ 1968 presidential convention, meanwhile, further contributed to the notion that left-wing lawlessness had gotten out of control. It was a nightmare event for Hubert Humphrey’s beleaguered presidential campaign, one where the public overwhelmingly sided with the Chicago police, not the demonstrators. (And, of course, guess where Democrats are holding their 2024 convention: Chicago.)

The political consequences of the upheaval became clear. While the doomed liberal campaigns of Eugene McCarthy and Robert Kennedy draw most of the focus in retrospectives of the era, the fact is that in November of 1968, Nixon and Wallace combined for 57 percent of the vote, close to the levels of historic landslide wins of LBJ in 1964 and Reagan in 1984.

...

source

Seeing how a lot of people like to point to the 1968 protests and say how they were "on the right side of history", this article is a good reminder of what actually came of those protests.

In 1968, 3/4s of whites disapproved of MLK Jr.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Don’t Forget the Backlash to the ’60s

source

Seeing how a lot of people like to point to the 1968 protests and say how they were "on the right side of history", this article is a good reminder of what actually came of those protests.

Unless Biden thinks of reinstating the draft and sending US troops to Gaza then this comparison is just lazy.

[Brittain33]

Most pro-Palestine users condemn anti-semetism and assault / violence, genius.

Proof? Or is this just something you “know” because you’re certain you’re the good guys?

[T'Chenka]

Most pro-Palestine users condemn anti-semetism and assault / violence, genius.

Proof? Or is this just something you “know” because you’re certain you’re the good guys?

This is a civil rights protest for Palestinian civilians. "Divest from Israel" (so that you aren't supporting harm being done by Israel to Palestinian civilians).

I'm not the one making the bold claim. It's a civil rights protest by left wing college students. A normal thing done by left wing college students in USA history. YOU are the one making the bold claim that the majority of these protestors are racists. Since YOU are the one making the bold claim, the burden is on YOU to provide evidence and reasoning for your bold claim.

"There's been a racist here and a racist there at these protests in the media" is not enough to make your claim the "neutral / presumptive" claim and my claim the bold claim. Not even close. "A very large amount of left wing USA college kids are racists" has never been a widely held common belief (EDIT - in the post-civil rights movement world, I meant).

[Fuzzy Bear]

Where's the condemnation from the press and politicians on the racism of the counter-protestors here?


https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1786223536446525567

It's not the proper response and this individual is clearly wrong.  And I'll even go further and say that Tate Reeves should have had the good sense not to cheer this on.  But it pales in comparison to the harm and damage the pro-Palestinian posters have done.  The scope of this behavior in response to the protests pales in comparison to the threatening, harassment, and violence toward Jewish students in multiple states across the nation, and, even in other countries.  It pales in comparison to the overall display of hatred the pro-Palestinians have displayed, not just for the IDF and Bibi, but for Jews (including the Jews in their midst) and for America and Americans. 

The pro-Palestinian protests have been VIOLENT protests.  As they are protests that have been infiltrated by actual terrorists (people are not denying that they are Hamas), they have systematically terrorized Jewish students.  Judging by your signature (a photo of the late Marxist leader of Burkina Faso), you're an open Marxist, and you sympathize with the allyship between Marxists and Hamas that drive these protests.  This is a situation of complaining about the (relative) speck in another's eye while ignoring the plank in your own.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Where's the condemnation from the press and politicians on the racism of the counter-protestors here?

You can't pull a "Look, the other side is bad too" if you don't actually condemn the hundreds of documented cases of antisemitism, mass property damage, assault, etc from the mobs.

I do, so I can easily say screw this racist frat boy too!

Most pro-Palestine users condemn anti-semetism and assault / violence, genius. It should go without saying. Claiming or implying that the majority of the supporters of the protests support that stuff is just a strawman used to make us look bad. If the anti-protestors side wants to win the battle of ideas, operating in good faith is a prerequisite.

That's a falsehood.  I won't say you're lying, because you have actually talked yourself into believing it.

Your side in this matter deserves the bad look you get.

[T'Chenka]

It's not the proper response and this individual is clearly wrong.  And I'll even go further and say that Tate Reeves should have had the good sense not to cheer this on.  But it pales in comparison to the harm and damage the pro-Palestinian posters have done.  The scope of this behavior in response to the protests pales in comparison to the threatening, harassment, and violence toward Jewish students in multiple states across the nation, and, even in other countries.  It pales in comparison to the overall display of hatred the pro-Palestinians have displayed, not just for the IDF and Bibi, but for Jews (including the Jews in their midst) and for America and Americans.  

The pro-Palestinian protests have been VIOLENT protests.  As they are protests that have been infiltrated by actual terrorists (people are not denying that they are Hamas), they have systematically terrorized Jewish students.

There are CLEARLY bad actors on both sides here (the protestors and counter-protestors). This isn't debatable. The evidence that this is true is overwhelming and well-documented.

However, to claim that the amount of hatred and violence being done by pro-Palestinian protestors is way more than the other side, and to imply that a significant amount of a majority of the protestors are violent or hateful, is a claim that intelligent people should not take at face value without it being properly demonstrated with FERL (facts evidence reasoning logic). Where's the FERL?

[T'Chenka]

That's a falsehood.  I won't say you're lying, because you have actually talked yourself into believing it.

Your side in this matter deserves the bad look you get.

I can demonstrate why I believe what I believe, with facts evidence reason logic. I'm also open-minded to modifying or changing my position if shown new facts evidence reason logic.

Your entire argument seems to be "people that disagree with me are wrong".

If you're confident that you're right, you should lay out your case instead of just making unsupported claims. The problem with this approach is, once you've shown your cards, it's possible that your position can be shown by others to be demonstrably incorrect. But hey, if you just keep making unsupported claims and never explain your positions in detail, you never have to be wrong!

[Brittain33]

Most pro-Palestine users condemn anti-semetism and assault / violence, genius.

Proof? Or is this just something you “know” because you’re certain you’re the good guys?

This is a civil rights protest for Palestinian civilians. "Divest from Israel" (so that you aren't supporting harm being done by Israel to Palestinian civilians).

I'm not the one making the bold claim. It's a civil rights protest by left wing college students. A normal thing done by left wing college students in USA history. YOU are the one making the bold claim that the majority of these protestors are racists. Since YOU are the one making the bold claim, the burden is on YOU to provide evidence and reasoning for your bold claim.

Wow. Want to run that by me again - either with a direct quote or with reference to your claim I was disagreeing with? I understand you’re upset but you’re losing the plot. Please read your statement that I was responding to again and then maybe log off for a few minutes.

I did not make that claim. What alarmed me on October 7 and every day since is not that protesters are anti-Semitic or violent, but how comfortable and, some, pleased they are to have “brave” people willing to go the extra distance and use those tools in service of a ”righteous” cause. Which is reflected by how rarely or half-heartedly they condemn violence or anti-Semitism and are much more likely to “whatabout” it or make excuses or deny it happened. Read the statements from Ryna Workman and the Harvard coalition if you have any doubts.

Bragging about how elated you felt on October 7 and breaking out the knafeh for a street party isn’t violent itself but it promotes violence by others.

[Brittain33]

And in that vein - any base satisfaction I could get from the vigilantes attacking the UCLA encampment, I disown and condemn along with their actions. It is not the way forward.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's not the proper response and this individual is clearly wrong.  And I'll even go further and say that Tate Reeves should have had the good sense not to cheer this on.  But it pales in comparison to the harm and damage the pro-Palestinian posters have done.  The scope of this behavior in response to the protests pales in comparison to the threatening, harassment, and violence toward Jewish students in multiple states across the nation, and, even in other countries.  It pales in comparison to the overall display of hatred the pro-Palestinians have displayed, not just for the IDF and Bibi, but for Jews (including the Jews in their midst) and for America and Americans.  

The pro-Palestinian protests have been VIOLENT protests.  As they are protests that have been infiltrated by actual terrorists (people are not denying that they are Hamas), they have systematically terrorized Jewish students.

There are CLEARLY bad actors on both sides here (the protestors and counter-protestors). This isn't debatable. The evidence that this is true is overwhelming and well-documented.

However, to claim that the amount of hatred and violence being done by pro-Palestinian protestors is way more than the other side, and to imply that a significant amount of a majority of the protestors are violent or hateful, is a claim that intelligent people should not take at face value without it being properly demonstrated with FERL (facts evidence reasoning logic). Where's the FERL?

The ratio of pro-Palestinian bad actors to opposition to bad actors is 99-1.

The "other" bad actors aren't committing burglaries, falsely imprisoning people, prohibiting ingress and egress to where people need to go.  The Pro-Palestinian posters are.  They're the ones committing the actual crimes.  The sad thing is that George Gascon and Alvin Bragg are Leftist Scum that won't prosecute these people for what there is probable cause for the crimes they have done.

[dead0man]

yeah, but this one clown guy did a racist dance, so, ya know, equal

[T'Chenka]

The ratio of pro-Palestinian bad actors to opposition to bad actors is 99-1.

I don't think you live in the real world, Fuzzy. Based on your posts, you don't seem interested in discovering what the actual truth is, as demonstrated by evidence or logic. You seem way more interested in what your gut or your right wing propaganda tells you. My reason for believing this is your propensity to make outrageous claims and then refuse to demonstrate why they're true. This is your right in a free country, but it is other peoples' right to point and laugh at you when you spout this nonsense.

[Mr. Illini]

The reactions to these protests have been incredibly unhinged.

They have been overwhelmingly peaceful. The biggest examples of violence that I’ve seen (other than police action) have been counterprotestors throwing fireworks at the UCLA encampment.

Locking yourself in a university building is not violence. Pitching a tent on the quad or blocking a street are not violent acts. Civil disobedience = breaking the law in a non-violent way in order to draw attention to a larger issue.

I also haven’t seen any first-hand examples of antisemitism at the demonstrations.

Breaking the law in a non-violent way is not sacred.  You are breaking the law and will be punished accordingly.  I feel like we as a society in general have lost track of the point of non-violent protest and simply decided that anyone protesting is inherently sacred and good as long as it's "peaceful" -- and then stretched to great lengths the definition of "peaceful" and "non-violent".

Compounding matters is the fact that even when the protests do turn violent and hateful and otherwise non-peaceful, there's a common arsenal of defenses that get deployed no matter what:

• Those are just isolated examples and the "vast majority" of protests are "overwhelmingly" peaceful
• It wasn't really violence because I can just change the definition of what counts as violence
• All this violence is just outside agitators conducting false flag attacks to discredit the protests
• Well yeah but whatabout this other example of the other side being violence?  Will you condemn that?  Whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout (this is always the last resort of losers fighting a losing argument)

You are not entitled to choose which laws you will obey simply because you do it in the name of social protest.  That includes not only laws against violence and hate speech (which have been broken by countless anti-Jew protesters around the country) but also laws protecting property rights and the freedom of movement of other people.  Even if you were conducting the world's most peaceful and kindhearted protest, if Columbia University does not want you on its lawn then as a private institution that owns said lawn, it has the right to demand you leave, and if you disobey you are then trespassing and may be removed by whatever force proves necessary to remove you.  This is a basic tenet of human civilization that has held up for tens of thousands of years.

You are correct - people who break the law will be arrested and punished. That’s the point of civil disobedience. You are causing trouble to attract attention so your message can be heard. If Columbia had just allowed the students to stay inside Hamilton Hall until they were ready to leave, the action would have actually been less effective.

These are basic ideas of activism. I don’t expect the average American to understand that but you’d think people on here who have an understanding of history would recognize it. As others have said, these tactics were used extensively in the civil rights movement, Vietnam War protests, and on countless other topics since then.

You can disagree with their message, but most of the unhinged reactions have centered around their tactics.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Expelled, Thanks Columbia

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6dyQmxryyS/

[Fuzzy Bear]

The ratio of pro-Palestinian bad actors to opposition to bad actors is 99-1.

I don't think you live in the real world, Fuzzy. Based on your posts, you don't seem interested in discovering what the actual truth is, as demonstrated by evidence or logic. You seem way more interested in what your gut or your right wing propaganda tells you. My reason for believing this is your propensity to make outrageous claims and then refuse to demonstrate why they're true. This is your right in a free country, but it is other peoples' right to point and laugh at you when you spout this nonsense.

I've demonstrated that they're true.  You would not admit the obvious. 

I've been alive longer than you and I've NEVER seen the Palestinians willing to be reasonable.  Each and every faction of Arab Palestinians are Arab Nationalists and (to varying degrees) Islamic Jihadists.  If this is up for debate, you haven't been paying attention. 

Public support for "Palestine" depends on creating new narratives of how the "Palestinians" have been displaced, etc.  Yet no Arab state has opened their doors to them.  Why is that?  They are making an "indigenous" claim to "Palestine", but the Jews have a far more valid "indigenous" claim (if we're going that route).  And there's a bottom line here.  The bottom line is that if Hamas surrenders and disarms, there will be peace, but if Israel surrenders and disarms, it will be crushed.  I see no reason not to believe that you secretly wish for the latter outcome, and you're not alone on this forum, sad to say.