Cluster Bombs

[dead0man]

Well they are effective and we do use them/need them or we would have signed the treaty.  You guys don't think we signed it just because W. Bush is pure evil do you?

[dead0man]

Well they are effective and we do use them/need them or we would have signed the treaty. 

Erm, I think you're missing the point of the treaty. They're not being banned because no-one wants them.

I understand that, but that's not what some people are arguing here.  Some people are saying they are worthless as weapons and that's not true.  They are very valuable weapons.  I wont argue against the argument that goes "they leave many unexploded ordinance on the battlefield and kids get hurt post war, we should ban them for that".  I don't think we should ban them in the US, but there is no argument I could give that could beat that line of thought.

But saying they aren't needed anymore because we aren't looking directly at a war with a major power is a crap argument.  They are still needed.  They are still effective.

[dead0man]

Well they are effective and we do use them/need them or we would have signed the treaty.  You guys don't think we signed it just because W. Bush is pure evil do you?

Actually...pretty close, yes.

I mean, I would bet my left nut the folks who make the cluster bombs have contributed mega-bucks to his various candidacies.  And both he and Dick likely have oodles of cash invested in these companies.  I think that was reason number one for the Iraq War, frankly.  Not oil, not saving Daddy's reputation, not WMD's or spreading democracy...but money.

I don't know, any of that could be true or untrue, we'll probably never know.  But the weapons work.  And the next generation are safer (post war) and more effective against enemy targets.

[dead0man]

Safer is good.  Failing a ban or an absolute, ironclad commitment to remediate theaters where we use them, I would be very pleased to know that we were manufacturing safer devices that were extremely difficult to set off post deployment by civilians or conditions.

The one we've used since the first Gulf War link has a less than 1% unexploded ordinance rate and according to Futureweapons on the Military Channel, the next gen is even better.

[dead0man]

No way would I want to ban cluster bombs. What I do want is for the military to be able to protect themselves with whatever weapon they might need, whenever they have to go fight some evil asshole.

What advantage do cluster bombs give us over bunker busters, incendiary bombs or other ordnance?

Different needs.  Not every target is buried underground or hidden deep in a forrest.  Some targets are tank columns.  Some targets are active training grounds or battlefields full of bad guys.  If you want to destroy a group of "soft" targets that are spread out over a couple of square football fields and you want to drop one bomb instead of just carpet bombing the area (like we used to do and would end up doing if we didn't have cluster bombs available), you drop a cluster bomb.