Should John Muhammad be executed?

[Scam of God]

For someone so thoughtfully concerned with limiting the scope of the State, Gramps, you sure seem to want to defend the most extreme of its jurisdictions: that over life and death. Or is this another case of being selectively anti-government on your part?

No, absolutely not.

[Scam of God]

For someone so thoughtfully concerned with limiting the scope of the State, Gramps, you sure seem to want to defend the most extreme of its jurisdictions: that over life and death. Or is this another case of being selectively anti-government on your part?

No, absolutely not.

Don't view things as absolutes, Einzige.....well, you can if you like, but I don't, sorry.

I view the death penalty as the price society has placed on the premeditated murder of another.  I agree with it.

So while you're right that I am concerned, very concerned, that the "state's" power must be limited(the patriot act being one of my real bugaboos), I am pro-death penalty.  You can view that anyway you choose.......again, I'm not one for absolutes, but prefer to judge each issue.

The death penalty is an absolute. It is difficult, by its very nature, for it to not be an absolute. And you have just said that you approve of the State having ultimate authority over that absolute.

[Scam of God]

For someone so thoughtfully concerned with limiting the scope of the State, Gramps, you sure seem to want to defend the most extreme of its jurisdictions: that over life and death. Or is this another case of being selectively anti-government on your part?

No, absolutely not.

Don't view things as absolutes, Einzige.....well, you can if you like, but I don't, sorry.

I view the death penalty as the price society has placed on the premeditated murder of another.  I agree with it.

So while you're right that I am concerned, very concerned, that the "state's" power must be limited(the patriot act being one of my real bugaboos), I am pro-death penalty.  You can view that anyway you choose.......again, I'm not one for absolutes, but prefer to judge each issue.

The death penalty is an absolute. It is difficult, by its very nature, for it to not be an absolute. And you have just said that you approve of the State having ultimate authority over that absolute.

The state permits 12 jurors (typically it is jurors) to have the ultimate authority and I agree with it.

Which is why you aren't really a libertarian. Democratizing authority over life and death is the last thing we want. It is, ultimately, the root and cause of our entire ideology.

[Scam of God]

Apples and oranges.  Telling somebody that you're praying for them at least lets them know that you care about them and that you hope for the best.  Even though they're essentially just powerless words, it still helps them feel better psychologically.

No Joe, you were making a poke at religion since I put "burn in hell" as an option....which is fine, but it's hardly apples and oranges when I call you on it.

God forbid anyone makes pokes at religion. That might be individualistic, and we can't have that.

[Scam of God]

I love it. The very same hypocrites and charlatans in this thread who pose and preen as anti-government anti-populists nevertheless support turning over the very affairs of life and death to a panel of twelve (uneducated, unprofessional) jurors, selected by the State to administer a conviction based upon popular passion.

Scum.

[Scam of God]

Thanks for pointing out your points, Joe, because I seriously couldn't make out the point....but ok, I'll address it..........I don't think he's getting off the hook at all.......k?

There's really no need for the sarcasm, but thank you anyway for once again falling onto the side of those whose views are governed by their own irrationality.  I truly enjoy discussing these issues.

I wasn't being sarcastic and I'm not looking for an argument per se.......the issue of "what happens next" is not supported by facts....so we're all just guessing.   As to him only being in jail for 7 years, have no fear, the world will have one less monster in it after tonight.....whether that's enough is for each of us to decide and disagreements on this will go on til the end of time.  If you wish to label me irrational, ok by me.

Every time you post, I like you a little less.

[Scam of God]

I love it. The very same hypocrites and charlatans in this thread who pose and preen as anti-government anti-populists nevertheless support turning over the very affairs of life and death to a panel of twelve (uneducated, unprofessional) jurors, selected by the State to administer a conviction based upon popular passion.

Scum.

You're right, we should just set him free.

If it's the State funding his imprisonment? Yes. If it's a private prison? Then no, keep him locked up there.

[Scam of God]

I love it. The very same hypocrites and charlatans in this thread who pose and preen as anti-government anti-populists nevertheless support turning over the very affairs of life and death to a panel of twelve (uneducated, unprofessional) jurors, selected by the State to administer a conviction based upon popular passion.

Scum.

You're right, we should just set him free.

If it's the State funding his imprisonment? Yes. If it's a private prison? Then no, keep him locked up there.

So the state should not pay for prisons, but it's okay if it takes over healthcare? Okay.

No, it isn't. But I'm inclined to show some support for UHC just to punish conservatives for the past eight years.

[Scam of God]

I would have much preferred to have had him fried in an electric chair, though...have him suffer a bit.  Lethal injections seem so anti-climatic and unsatisfying. 

Pervert.

LOL -it was late at night, I was tired, and I made a few bad word choices.  You know full well that is not how I intended it to sound when I typed them.   

I doubt it. Most barbarians sexualize the experience of death, to make it easier for them to digest and not experience bad dreams.

[Scam of God]

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So you're a weakling, a slave to popular passions.

Fine.

[Scam of God]

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So you're a weakling, a slave to popular passions.

Fine.

What is it like up there in that ivory tower of yours?  

"Ivory tower"? I live in the dirt.

[Scam of God]

    No. The state should not have the power to execute anyone.

Pretty much, that and I can't think of any way that you could possibly call any execution methods anything other than cruel and unusual.

Good point.  The guy who got his head blown off at the gas station probably never felt a thing while his brains sprayed half way across the parking lot, and he probably never saw the mass of gray matter fly out of his head either.  So I'll just feel for Muhammad, since he saw it coming.

Stop pretending, please. It isn't 1980. Nobody's impressed.

[Scam of God]

I'm surprised the 'yes' vote garnered as many as it did.  This is a very liberal forum.  And I would have thought more than 4 went with 'rehab'.

Thanks guys........a good conversation was had.

Run away! A real debate might challenge your preconceptions (and we can't have that! Ronald Reagan was the Messiah!).

[Scam of God]

I'm surprised the 'yes' vote garnered as many as it did.  This is a very liberal forum.  And I would have thought more than 4 went with 'rehab'.

Thanks guys........a good conversation was had.

Run away! A real debate might challenge your preconceptions (and we can't have that! Ronald Reagan was the Messiah!).

Neh, but honestly,  you bore me and I've had enough.  This subject, much like abortion, won't have any converts.........but I did enjoy everyone's opinion, even yours (when you weren't being a dick).

Okay, weakling.

[Scam of God]

While I'm usually an opponent of silly rhetoric like this, fundamentally, if you can't trust the post office to deliver an important package for you, can you trust the institution to ensure not one person, ever, is wrongly executed?

But yet you can trust them to run your health care and "stimulate" the economy. Man, are your masters this cognitively dissonant, or are you starting to throw off your chains?

And you trust them to institutionalize Christianity. The exact same thing can be said of you.