This video will make your day: Sikh immigrant shop owners teach thief a painful lesson

[dead0man]

Of course they are, I was just trying to rebut whatever specific ridiculous point you and Ishan were trying to make here,

my only "point" was that it was super easy for him to avoid getting his ass beat.

but of course it’s tangential to the main issue at hand, which as I said is that this goes well beyond simple self-defence (being either a fairly nasty piece of violent revenge, or a rather weird and pathetic attempt to generate online content).

what do you suggest they do instead?  Stop whacking him when he asks?  What do you suggest they do when he gets up and starts to walk away?  Let him go?  Do you believe they never should have intervened in the first place?  You have hindsight, plenty of time and almost no stress so this should be far easier for you than for the victims. 

More broadly, even if you think what the owners did here was grimly necessary, it should be viewed as no more than that - grim necessity - and the tone of outright glee from many in this thread strikes me as very odd. In general, having to resolve disputes through extrajudicial interpersonal violence (and I think we all know what the subtext of this video as far as race relations go is) is not a sign of a healthy society!

I generally agree with this, but nobody should lose any sleep over this ass beating (except for the criminal who might find it hard to get comfortable for the next week or two).  If the courts keep letting repeat criminals out, we will be seeing more "community justice" beatings like this.

[Alcibiades]

my only "point" was that it was super easy for him to avoid getting his ass beat.

Well of course, I’m not saying that he was justified in trying to rob the shop, just that two wrongs don’t make a right.

what do you suggest they do instead?  Stop whacking him when he asks?  What do you suggest they do when he gets up and starts to walk away?  Let him go?  Do you believe they never should have intervened in the first place?  You have hindsight, plenty of time and almost no stress so this should be far easier for you than for the victims. 

Uh, continue to restrain him until the police arrive? It was clear that they had already accomplished that before they brought the pole out. I’m pretty sure that in most scenarios like this, that is in fact what happens without having to resort to extra ‘punishment’.

I generally agree with this, but nobody should lose any sleep over this ass beating (except for the criminal who might find it hard to get comfortable for the next week or two).  If the courts keep letting repeat criminals out, we will be seeing more "community justice" beatings like this.

I would suggest that America does not have a problem with underincarceration…

[dead0man]

Uh, continue to restrain him until the police arrive? It was clear that they had already accomplished that before they brought the pole out. I’m pretty sure that in most scenarios like this, that is in fact what happens without having to resort to extra ‘punishment’.

we clearly watched different videos if you think the guy was restrained when the broomstick started hitting him.

I would suggest that America does not have a problem with underincarceration…

if there are criminals walking around unpunished for their crimes it does.  You can have both some people in jail incorrectly and others not in jail that should be.  In fact, I'd assume that's the norm everywhere.

[Alcibiades]

we clearly watched different videos if you think the guy was restrained when the broomstick started hitting him.

Considering the possibility that the video was staged, I’m not sure it deserves overanalysis, but anyway, even taking what you said as a given (which is still not clear to me), repeatedly striking the robber’s lower half with a stick does not seems to me like the best way of helping to restrain him, compared to sitting on his legs.

if there are criminals walking around unpunished for their crimes it does.  You can have both some people in jail incorrectly and others not in jail that should be.  In fact, I'd assume that's the norm everywhere.

One of the problems with this video is it is largely context-free - for instance we don’t know where it happened - but yes, it is a possibility that the area is underpoliced (though policing is obviously a separate issue from incarceration - because the robber had a gun, some prison time is probably appropriate in this situation, but otherwise I’m not sure it would be). On the other hand, though, this could be his first offence, in which case I’m not sure how incarceration is supposed to have prevented this, other than some dystopian Minority Report situation. And taking a broader view, I’m sure I don’t have to spell out the destructive effects that mass incarceration has had on many black communities in the US.

[Donerail]

You do not see the lathi in America much. Beautiful to see this sort of exchange of cultures. We have much to learn from each other.

On the other hand, though, this could be his first offence, in which case I’m not sure how incarceration is supposed to have prevented this, other than some dystopian Minority Report situation. And taking a broader view, I’m sure I don’t have to spell out the destructive effects that mass incarceration has had on many black communities in the US.

Wheeling in a 20-gallon bin and brazenly emptying the shelves is the typical modus operandi of a first offender, yes. I support alternatives to incarceration and I'm glad that, in this case, there was a social worker on hand to intervene and provide this man with the help and support he deserved.

[Blair]

Before Santander’s comment, a frankly quite disturbing set of reactions in this thread to an act which clearly went beyond mere self-defence and arguably bordered on sadistic revenge (notwithstanding the possibility that DrScholl points out).

How is it sadistic to protect your own livelihood? These Sikhs immigrated with nothing and they aren’t going to let some psycho destroy their business. Your indifference to what the Sikhs in that video saw with some guy openly destroying their livelihood tells a lot. I am sure that you, someone who lives in a affluent suburb of London and doesn’t presumably know many people who own businesses like this.

Lol you do know that Sikhs errrr do live in affluent London suburbs?

what does that have to do with the people in the video?  Poor people can't defend themselves if other people in their ethnic group are rich?

No- look at the last line of the post I was responding to where poster implied that BAME business owners (or Sikhs even) don’t live in affluent London suburbs when that is actually where they’re more likely to be in London!

[Continential]

Before Santander’s comment, a frankly quite disturbing set of reactions in this thread to an act which clearly went beyond mere self-defence and arguably bordered on sadistic revenge (notwithstanding the possibility that DrScholl points out).

How is it sadistic to protect your own livelihood? These Sikhs immigrated with nothing and they aren’t going to let some psycho destroy their business.

I have no problem with them tackling and restraining the robber. However, I don’t see how them then beating him with a pole, whether real or staged, is necessary to protect their livelihoods. Call me an out-of-touch bleeding heart, I guess, but I hold the crazy belief that people shouldn’t generally engage in excess violence for purely ‘retributive’ purposes.

The robber was provoking the Sikhs and pulled out a knife. I think that the robber could have posed a serious threat to the workers of the 7/11 hadn't he been subdued and the Sikh with the stick didn't beat him till the robber died, he beat him until he was subdued enough for the other guy to restrain him. 

Your indifference to what the Sikhs in that video saw with some guy openly destroying their livelihood tells a lot. I am sure that you, someone who lives in a affluent suburb of London and doesn’t presumably know many people who own businesses like this.

I could say a lot of things here (iirc you don’t exactly live in a diverse working class area), but because I’m the adult in this conversation I’m going to refrain from most of them . All I’ll say is that I hope that in a few years’ time you’ll look back on posts of yours like these (which have recently taken on a weird right-wing identitarian tone) and be embarrassed.

I have relatives who own/work in similar types of businesses and they came with nothing, worked hard and they faced racism in the process and as a result of their perseverance, they live good middle-class lives. The Sikhs I know are hardworking people who work hard for their families and their communities.

[jojoju1998]

If Republicans are smart enough, they will drop the racial crap, and focus on attracting immigrants, they're more likely to be socially conservative, small business owners, typical republican demographics.

[Ferguson97]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

[Pres Mike]

Its too bad he wasn't crippled.

Hell, you're the most unhinged teacher I've ever met, you sure you don't want to transition to dirty cop?

I would love to be a cop. I have great respect for law enforcment.

Like serving in the military, I don't think I am right mentally or physically for law enforcment or military. But I would have loved to do both.

Besides, I make more far money as a teacher and my various side gigs  than I ever would as a cop

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Yay! I wish he was more badly injured.

Does this annoy some of atlas users? They probably wanted the thug to walk free.

Now this is excessive and gross, especially the baiting of your second comment. Get a grip.

[lfromnj]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/video-shows-would-be-stockton-thief-beaten-by-7-eleven-clerks/ar-AA1eLPSN

Seems like its from Stockton?

[Schiff for Senate]

Yeahh Punjabis are chill as hell, but they don’t hold back if a beating is what you deserve.

[Continential]

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1688223049663848448

What a joke. Looking forward to the crowd going to villainize the heroes for beating up a thug who robbed the store multiple times until the heroes taught him the biggest lesson in his pathetic life. 

[Continential]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

This irony? Looters and shoplifters who steal from hardworking people making an honest living deserve this treatment.

[DrScholl]

Self-defense becomes assault when you go beyond what is necessary to defend yourself. And there is no law that says you can beat somebody up because you are angry that they stole. There is no legal loophole for revenge and the law should have strict limits on when violence is justifiable.

[DrScholl]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

This irony? Looters and shoplifters who steal from hardworking people making an honest living deserve this treatment.

Where does it stop though? Death? Outside of very violent and heinous crimes there is no justifiable reason to wish brutal violence on someone. You open the door to that and the threshold to violence becomes even lower.

[Skill and Chance]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

This irony? Looters and shoplifters who steal from hardworking people making an honest living deserve this treatment.

Where does it stop though? Death? Outside of very violent and heinous crimes there is no justifiable reason to wish brutal violence on someone. You open the door to that and the threshold to violence becomes even lower.

IMO lethal (or what a reasonable person would expect to be lethal) should be the line.  Currently, it generally isn't legal for a private citizen to use force on a shoplifter at all.  I believe this is a mistake and ideally they should be allowed to use non-lethal force without liability.   

[dead0man]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

This irony? Looters and shoplifters who steal from hardworking people making an honest living deserve this treatment.

Where does it stop though? Death? Outside of very violent and heinous crimes there is no justifiable reason to wish brutal violence on someone. You open the door to that and the threshold to violence becomes even lower.

IMO lethal (or what a reasonable person would expect to be lethal) should be the line.  Currently, it generally isn't legal for a private citizen to use force on a shoplifter at all.  I believe this is a mistake and ideally they should be allowed to use non-lethal force without liability.   

well, you aren't allowed to walk up and sucker punch a shoplifter, but you can attempt to restrain them (as is suggested by the bleeding hearts in the thread) and if they fight back, you're allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself.  At least in theory, DAs and judges aren't always going to be on the victim's side.

[Sumner 1868]

Its too bad he wasn't crippled.

Hell, you're the most unhinged teacher I've ever met, you sure you don't want to transition to dirty cop?

I would love to be a cop. I have great respect for law enforcment.

Like serving in the military, I don't think I am right mentally or physically for law enforcment or military. But I would have loved to do both.

Besides, I make more far money as a teacher and my various side gigs  than I ever would as a cop

I'm afraid to ask, but I feel that I must; what is your opinion of waterboarding?

[John Dule]

Obviously there are circumstances where using self-defense can go too far and cross into pure revenge, but that's not what I saw in this video. This seems like a straightforward example of a man trying to neutralize an active threat.

Instead of hemming and hawing over the specifics of the methods the store owner used, it would be more helpful to discuss why this thief thought he could get away with a robbery this blatant despite being caught on camera and not even attempting to conceal his actions. The sheer gall it takes to behave like this is only possible in an environment where one can credibly expect to not suffer any consequences from one's actions. This is the result of particular types of destructive policies that are in the process of ruining my state, and which many people on this site continue to advocate for. The folly of such a system is self-evident in the types of people it produces-- as this video depicts.

[Continential]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

This irony? Looters and shoplifters who steal from hardworking people making an honest living deserve this treatment.

Where does it stop though? Death? Outside of very violent and heinous crimes there is no justifiable reason to wish brutal violence on someone. You open the door to that and the threshold to violence becomes even lower.

The man lost any right to complain about the treatment he deserved when he threatened the safety of the people in the 7/11 by pulling out a knife/appearing to push someone and being a repeat offender while the police do squat after stealing multiple times. 

[DrScholl]

Some of you guys aren't right in the head.

This irony? Looters and shoplifters who steal from hardworking people making an honest living deserve this treatment.

Where does it stop though? Death? Outside of very violent and heinous crimes there is no justifiable reason to wish brutal violence on someone. You open the door to that and the threshold to violence becomes even lower.

The man lost any right to complain about the treatment he deserved when he threatened the safety of the people in the 7/11 by pulling out a knife/appearing to push someone and being a repeat offender while the police do squat after stealing multiple times. 

Legally if a person is restrained any unnecessary force used is going to be deemed assault. Again, we aren't talking about the initial restraint, we are talking about what happened after and the fact that some people on this thread said he should have been beaten even more. What does beating a shoplifter after they've been restrained accomplish? Maybe it makes the store owner feel better, but the law doesn't have revenge loopholes.

[Pres Mike]

Its too bad he wasn't crippled.

Hell, you're the most unhinged teacher I've ever met, you sure you don't want to transition to dirty cop?

I would love to be a cop. I have great respect for law enforcment.

Like serving in the military, I don't think I am right mentally or physically for law enforcment or military. But I would have loved to do both.

Besides, I make more far money as a teacher and my various side gigs  than I ever would as a cop

I'm afraid to ask, but I feel that I must; what is your opinion of waterboarding?

It should be illegal. All forms of torture should be illegal. I am a Muslim-American and think Guantanamo Bay should be closed.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't know much about the DA of Stockton or how similar they are to Chesa Boudin but considering how brazen the thief was it seems there might be a lack of prosecution for burglary and theft there. And yet if the shop owner gets prosecuted...yeah interesting implications.