Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Yes, I don't think Kemal is Hitler or anything, but I feel that he made crucial mistakes about the Turkish state - namely leaving it overly militarised, dominated by a snobbish bureaucratic class and overly focused on ethnic nationalism rather than a more inclusive civic nationalism - that have definitely impacted Turkey negatively since he passed. It's a shame because it allowed Erdogan to rise by presenting himself as the relative pluralist.

Irt secularism I think there's a compromise one can draw. I am not a huge fan of laicite. I think it's overly crude and a bit creepy. Yes, secularism should be pushed when it expands individual rights; but when it seeks to control we should be suspicious.

[Beezer]

[Middle-aged Europe]

Uh oh, and I thought German-Turkish diplomatic relations were bad right now....

[Classic Conservative]

Geert responds: https://mobile.twitter.com/geertwilderspvv/status/840695139244879872

[Angel of Death]

My gut tells me this will hardly affect the election, given the Dutch are closing ranks on this.

[Pericles]

The momentum is against Wilders now.

[Bumaye]

My gut tells me this will hardly affect the election, given the Dutch are closing ranks on this.

 
  
Especially because all major parties back the government in their actions. Of course Wilders is less diplomatic about it than Klaver but still, there is not much to gain from a topic where all parties agree for once.  
  
Well, I guess Vienna/Berlin/Amsterdam is the new Axis of Evil for Erdo and his fanboys. If Bern and Ljubljana would join we could be the Fascist Crescent.

[windjammer]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

[Zinneke]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

They won't ally with the PVV again, at least Buma has said so.

[jeron]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

That's not going to happen and if CDA does decide to do it, the next election would be a total disaster for CDA, like the 2012 election.

[windjammer]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

That's not going to happen and if CDA does decide to do it, the next election would be a total disaster for CDA, like the 2012 election.

It was a total disaster for the CDA because they were the minor coalition partner, it would have been totally different if they were the leading coalition party.

And yes of course that won't happen, they should though

[I Won - Get Over It]

I think PVV (and Erdogan) will benefit from it...

[SunSt0rm]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

The party members wont allow it this time. The party almost split last time. And with the radical stances of Wilders nowadays it almost impossible that a deal can be striked this time

[Lord Halifax]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

The party members wont allow it this time. The party almost split last time. And with the radical stances of Wilders nowadays it almost impossible that a deal can be striked this time

struck

[Donerail]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

This is minor related to the other objections, but SGP has never been in government before and it's difficult to see what kind of coalition deal would be tolerable to both them and VVD.

[mvd10]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

This is minor related to the other objections, but SGP has never been in government before and it's difficult to see what kind of coalition deal would be tolerable to both them and VVD.

On things like taxes, the economy and defense the SGP and VVD are quite close to each other. There are differences on ethical issues but I think the SGP would agree to support a government as long as progressive legislation will be blocked and I don't think the VVD cares that much about these issues. In fact the SGP played a big role in passing government policy (VVD and PvdA needed D66, SGP and CU in the senate). I don't think the SGP will be in government but I can see them supporting a VVD-CDA-D66-CU minority coalition. D66 and CU/SGP would be the real problem there.

[Zinneke]

If CDA ends up first, they should make a coalition with VVD, PVV, 50+ and SGP (it has the majority of seats). I suppose that some "deceived" PVV and 50+ would vote for them for the next election, consolidating their place as first party.

That's not going to happen and if CDA does decide to do it, the next election would be a total disaster for CDA, like the 2012 election.

It was a total disaster for the CDA because they were the minor coalition partner, it would have been totally different if they were the leading coalition party.

And yes of course that won't happen, they should though

Why should the CDA ally with a man who double crossed them last time they worked together?

[mvd10]

PVV will not be in the next government. It just isn't going to happen. The next government probably will be VVD-CDA-D66 with 1 or 2 other parties. I suppose there is an outside chance for CDA-D66-GroenLinks-PvdA-SP if Buma decides personal ambition and his grudge towards Rutte are more important than his own party but I don't think that will happen.

[DavidB.]

My gut tells me this will hardly affect the election, given the Dutch are closing ranks on this.

A (small) rallying around the flag effect (for the VVD) cannot be ruled out either. Peil.nl will publish a poll in two hours, so we'll see what happens.

[ApatheticAustrian]

is there any party which wishes to compromise?

[DavidB.]

is there any party which wishes to compromise?

DENK "want both Rutte and Erdogan to de-escalate" and haven't publicly picked a side. They cannot afford to piss off their supporters and probably don't think it was a problem for Turkish ministers to come to the Netherlands and campaign for a "yes" vote in the first place. All other parties are in agreement with the government. D66 and SP have been especially vocal about their stance.

Meanwhile, Rutte stated that he wants Erdogan to apologize for his remarks about the Netherlands being a Nazi country, contradicting FM Koenders' earlier statement that asking for apologies would not be useful. Erdogan just called the Netherlands a "banana republic" and said the international community should consider sanctions against us.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

My 'brain tumour' thesis is holding up surprisingly well!

[DavidB.]

For our Dutch posters

[Tender Branson]

is there any party which wishes to compromise?

DENK "want both Rutte and Erdogan to de-escalate" and haven't publicly picked a side. They cannot afford to piss off their supporters and probably don't think it was a problem for Turkish ministers to come to the Netherlands and campaign for a "yes" vote in the first place. All other parties are in agreement with the government. D66 and SP have been especially vocal about their stance.

Meanwhile, Rutte stated that he wants Erdogan to apologize for his remarks about the Netherlands being a Nazi country, contradicting FM Koenders' earlier statement that asking for apologies would not be useful. Erdogan just called the Netherlands a "banana republic" and said the international community should consider sanctions against us.

David, you forgot to mention the 5.000 or so Kurds that were killed by the Erdogan-forces over the past year and the 100.000s that were displaced and tortured and intimidated - because after all being a Kurd is the same as being a terrorist.

How many Kurds did the "banana-Republic" Netherlands torture, displace and kill last year ?

[DavidB.]

Good points, Tender.

Today's peil.nl poll shows that the PVV lost 3 more seats. Still no VVD recovery either, and the momentum lies with CDA, GL and SP. I'm inclined to vote Forum now, though still undecided.