Israeli General Election (2nd of March, 2020): Madness

[America Needs R'hllor]

Honestly don't care about Regev in IS. She'll make a lot of wind and outrageous statements but it gives her less place for culture war type sh**t and I don't think she'll be much less competent than Erdan. It was smart to make it a red line though, just to get Likud to make other concessions.

[jaymichaud]

Meretz are calling for Litzman to be given the boot for abuse of power and ignoring social distancing rules. The entireity of UTJ is poison.

[Zinneke]

What moral justification do the UTJ have for imposing laws on secular Israelis but not following it themselves? Why don't they just advocate having a confederal state whereby they live by their rules in their community but don't rely on Israeli taxpayers to subsidise them? There's surely a serious issue when a specific community within the state can legislate against all the others without it being applicable to themselves?

[brucejoel99]

Litzman shakes my faith in my fellow Jews. This man just can't be a freaking health minister.

[jaymichaud]

Some recent rumours\news: sources from both sides are saying that the sides are very close to an agreement. Edlestein will remain Speaker, Regev will be Internal Security Minister, Nissenkorn will be Justice Minister. It's also looking like KL might exchange the Foreign Ministry for Education, which would mean Yamina in the opposition.

Yes, it looks like Netanyahu is sending the settlers to the opposition and giving Education to KL, which is wonderful for my teacher-wife, kids, and everyone else who thinks that Israeli schools should cram actual learning and not Judaism down stdents' throats. Niesenkorn will be excellent in Justice, but apparently the right and KL will each be given a veto on appointments (like state prosecutor and AG), so perhaps not as much room to reverse Shaked's reforms as I'd hope. Health was staying with Litzman, but a major report just caught him doing Haredi things in violation of his own regulations for the last week (gathering to pray, etc). So I expect KL to demand his resignation. Not sure where Health would go. Edelstein will go to Foreign, which is fine. No clue what is happening with annexation. I assume culture, defense and communications will go to the left, as planned.

So for the left I'd give it a solid B. Really want health, to send Bibi home, and hate to have Regev in internal security. But it's clear that Bibi is giving the government to the left to stay in power and Gantz is giving up a demand to send Bibi home for control over major ministries, the justice system prosecuting Bibi, and the PM seat in two years.

Shaked is throwing a fit about it.

[Walmart_shopper]

Some recent rumours\news: sources from both sides are saying that the sides are very close to an agreement. Edlestein will remain Speaker, Regev will be Internal Security Minister, Nissenkorn will be Justice Minister. It's also looking like KL might exchange the Foreign Ministry for Education, which would mean Yamina in the opposition.

Yes, it looks like Netanyahu is sending the settlers to the opposition and giving Education to KL, which is wonderful for my teacher-wife, kids, and everyone else who thinks that Israeli schools should cram actual learning and not Judaism down stdents' throats. Niesenkorn will be excellent in Justice, but apparently the right and KL will each be given a veto on appointments (like state prosecutor and AG), so perhaps not as much room to reverse Shaked's reforms as I'd hope. Health was staying with Litzman, but a major report just caught him doing Haredi things in violation of his own regulations for the last week (gathering to pray, etc). So I expect KL to demand his resignation. Not sure where Health would go. Edelstein will go to Foreign, which is fine. No clue what is happening with annexation. I assume culture, defense and communications will go to the left, as planned.

So for the left I'd give it a solid B. Really want health, to send Bibi home, and hate to have Regev in internal security. But it's clear that Bibi is giving the government to the left to stay in power and Gantz is giving up a demand to send Bibi home for control over major ministries, the justice system prosecuting Bibi, and the PM seat in two years.

Shaked is throwing a fit about it.

That's always a good sign.

[Hnv1]

Some recent rumours\news: sources from both sides are saying that the sides are very close to an agreement. Edlestein will remain Speaker, Regev will be Internal Security Minister, Nissenkorn will be Justice Minister. It's also looking like KL might exchange the Foreign Ministry for Education, which would mean Yamina in the opposition.

Yes, it looks like Netanyahu is sending the settlers to the opposition and giving Education to KL, which is wonderful for my teacher-wife, kids, and everyone else who thinks that Israeli schools should cram actual learning and not Judaism down stdents' throats. Niesenkorn will be excellent in Justice, but apparently the right and KL will each be given a veto on appointments (like state prosecutor and AG), so perhaps not as much room to reverse Shaked's reforms as I'd hope. Health was staying with Litzman, but a major report just caught him doing Haredi things in violation of his own regulations for the last week (gathering to pray, etc). So I expect KL to demand his resignation. Not sure where Health would go. Edelstein will go to Foreign, which is fine. No clue what is happening with annexation. I assume culture, defense and communications will go to the left, as planned.

So for the left I'd give it a solid B. Really want health, to send Bibi home, and hate to have Regev in internal security. But it's clear that Bibi is giving the government to the left to stay in power and Gantz is giving up a demand to send Bibi home for control over major ministries, the justice system prosecuting Bibi, and the PM seat in two years.

Shaked is throwing a fit about it.

If the last year taught us anything is that Shaked (like Shaffir) has de facto no electoral power and is merely being boosted by supporting media

[Hnv1]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

[jaymichaud]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

[brucejoel99]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

Yeah, her statement was great.

[Hnv1]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

I’m probably the oldest Israeli poster here after Danny, for the entire duration of my life Labour was a massive pile of dung. The demise of the Israeli left is credited mainly to their failing leaders Peres and Barak. There was a second Herzog and Livni had both a good vision and good list (Mitzna had a poor list to back him). But bar for that Labour had been a dying patient refusing to go and just hurting his family.

Anyhow it seems Golan is trying to gather support for a new body with an open primaries hoping he will head the new remains of the Israeli left. Highly doubt Michaeli would join Meretz

[America Needs R'hllor]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

I’m probably the oldest Israeli poster here after Danny, for the entire duration of my life Labour was a massive pile of dung. The demise of the Israeli left is credited mainly to their failing leaders Peres and Barak. There was a second Herzog and Livni had both a good vision and good list (Mitzna had a poor list to back him). But bar for that Labour had been a dying patient refusing to go and just hurting his family.

Anyhow it seems Golan is trying to gather support for a new body with an open primaries hoping he will head the new remains of the Israeli left. Highly doubt Michaeli would join Meretz

The Zionist Union was so (relatively) good it's pretty surreal. Wish Israel gave them a chance

[jaymichaud]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

I’m probably the oldest Israeli poster here after Danny, for the entire duration of my life Labour was a massive pile of dung. The demise of the Israeli left is credited mainly to their failing leaders Peres and Barak. There was a second Herzog and Livni had both a good vision and good list (Mitzna had a poor list to back him). But bar for that Labour had been a dying patient refusing to go and just hurting his family.

Anyhow it seems Golan is trying to gather support for a new body with an open primaries hoping he will head the new remains of the Israeli left. Highly doubt Michaeli would join Meretz

The fact Labor went from 19 seats to 3 in a single year... whew.

It's far too late to revive the party but ZU definitely had the right idea, a center left catch-all Democratic Party style list would probably still do pretty well today.

[EastAnglianLefty]

That's probably the most likely direction for Yesh Atid to go in, presumably?

[Walmart_shopper]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

I’m probably the oldest Israeli poster here after Danny, for the entire duration of my life Labour was a massive pile of dung. The demise of the Israeli left is credited mainly to their failing leaders Peres and Barak. There was a second Herzog and Livni had both a good vision and good list (Mitzna had a poor list to back him). But bar for that Labour had been a dying patient refusing to go and just hurting his family.

Anyhow it seems Golan is trying to gather support for a new body with an open primaries hoping he will head the new remains of the Israeli left. Highly doubt Michaeli would join Meretz

Michaeli said that she is not leaving Labor, so if Labor enters the government she presumably will, too. But I'm not sure a government will actually he formed, so perhaps this is all ak elaborate scheme to separate Orly Levy, Meretz, and Labor from each other.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Well I guess the unity government will be presented tomorrow. Peretz asked the house to split Labour and Meretz officially which means they are in with Gantz and their ministerial posts set

Not a Labor supporter, but kinda sad to see a party with such history and legacy fading into history because of the selfishness of a couple. At least their voters will probably go to YA or Meretz next election so there won't be many votes wasted.

Also Tamar is pissed off and she's calling Michaeli to join Meretz.

I’m probably the oldest Israeli poster here after Danny, for the entire duration of my life Labour was a massive pile of dung. The demise of the Israeli left is credited mainly to their failing leaders Peres and Barak. There was a second Herzog and Livni had both a good vision and good list (Mitzna had a poor list to back him). But bar for that Labour had been a dying patient refusing to go and just hurting his family.

Anyhow it seems Golan is trying to gather support for a new body with an open primaries hoping he will head the new remains of the Israeli left. Highly doubt Michaeli would join Meretz

Michaeli said that she is not leaving Labor, so if Labor enters the government she presumably will, too. But I'm not sure a government will actually he formed, so perhaps this is all ak elaborate scheme to separate Orly Levy, Meretz, and Labor from each other.

She's also saying she won't join the government. So I assume she'll technically be part of it but vote against and act as an opposition for all intents and purposes. I'd like her to just join Meretz, though.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

So has the government been announced yet?

[Progressive Pessimist]

So has the government been announced yet?

I wish this would just happen already. This is becoming harder to follow than the latest season of 'Twin Peaks.'

[The Mikado]

That's probably the most likely direction for Yesh Atid to go in, presumably?

Presumably Yesh Atid's DNA makes that difficult. Yesh Atid's (and Shinui's before it) defining features are being A. secular (far and away A) and B. liberal, which makes it hard for it to be a broad based lefty party and more likely to appeal to the educated and the relatively well off. It also locks them off forever from trying to seduce the Haredim away from Likud, which would be the natural killshot against Likud but which secularists are inherently unable to do.

Feel free to shoot me down, Israelis, if I'm wrong on this, but that's how the Lapid clan and their parties have always appeared from the outside, at least.

[Hnv1]

B&W and Labour announce the union of factions in the house and possibly parties towards the next election. which basically means the death of Labour, though B&W acts classically like the old Labour so in a sense it lives on

[America Needs R'hllor]

B&W and Labour announce the union of factions in the house and possibly parties towards the next election. which basically means the death of Labour, though B&W acts classically like the old Labour so in a sense it lives on

Yeah, they're "starting talks" on this. If it really ends up as a complete merger of both parties, Labour is officially death.

Good riddance.

[PSOL]

I hereby urge any Atlas user to refer to the Israeli Labour Party the Social Fascist/Labour Aristocrat party henceforth onward.

[jaymichaud]

B&W and Labour announce the union of factions in the house and possibly parties towards the next election. which basically means the death of Labour, though B&W acts classically like the old Labour so in a sense it lives on

And who in their right mind would vote for that mess?

[Hnv1]

B&W and Labour announce the union of factions in the house and possibly parties towards the next election. which basically means the death of Labour, though B&W acts classically like the old Labour so in a sense it lives on

And who in their right mind would vote for that mess?

With Nissekoren back in the fold I suppose a lot of the histadrut people and some old security-zionists. 6-8 seats

[Walmart_shopper]

So here is the coalition agreement in more or less final form. I'm curious what people think about it.

- KL/Labor will get Justice, including the Knesset Judicial committee, and Likud will have no veto on judicial appointments. Left wing MK Niesenkorn will be Justice Minister. The judiciary, including the Supreme Court, has been moderated somewhat after years of Shaked's leadership. This represents one of the best opportunities to expand the progressive activist wing of the courts in many years.

- In 18 months Netanyahu will remain in government, probably a minister of some sort, and Gantz will become PM.

- In addition to a bunch of ministries (Defense, Culture, Media/Communications) KL can choose between Education (a huge win) and Foreign.

- Litzman, somehow, remains as Health Minister. The grotesque symbolism of that is amazing, and frankly I think it will give gas to a secularist uprising that will have very poor consequences for the Haredim.

- Edelstein replaced by Yariv Levin as Knesset Speaker.

- Netanyahu can legislate West Bank settlement annexation after July, after "consultation" with Gantz and permission from the Trump administration. Bibi knows that the game is over if Trump loses in November. So he wants this now.

The bottom line is that Bibi sees that the end is very near for him, and he was willing to throw the right wing's most cherished projects under the bus all for the historic achievement of annexation. The extreme irony is that Israel will experience a deeper liberalization in the most important institutions in society (schools, courts, IDF) than has been seen in many years while at the same time cementing its apartheid regime. The paradox of that is simply mind-bending to me.

Annexation is obviously sickening. But it's not certain what mercurial Trump will do about it. It's not clear how much pressure Biden will exert before and after November. And it's not clear what global reaction will be. It is also not clear how expansive the application of sovereignty will be--if it's just major settlement blocs then it just puts in law what everyone already assumea to be true because nobody expects a widespread evacuation of settlements as a part of any peace plan.