Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin

[Person Man]

My dad a very big christian right person just called me and told me he isn't voting because of this pick.

Okay. So he hates women?

I think people will automatically assume, based on appearances, that Palin is pro-abortion and generally socially liberal unless told otherwise.

No alot of christian righters believe a women shouldn't have power over men. Its stupid and sexist I know, thank God I broke away and think differently.

Yes. Exactly. ...I mean, that's what the apolstolic letters can be intrepreted as saying.

[Person Man]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

Wow.  Seriously?

Yep.  And I am starting to think Oregon might be in play, too.  McCain is on his way to a borderline landslide unless he/she make a major misstep.

Why?

It's not just that she's female.  It's that she's a rugged sort, a northwesterner, an outdoors-type.  She's the John Tester of the GOP, except a hell of a lot better looking.  Oregon is always close.  My HOPE is that Oregon will see how extremely conservative she is on choice -- wanting to imprison abortive women and abortion providers -- and will reject her on that premise.  That said, they are going to like that she found middle ground on the gay rights issue, and that she has challenged the old conservative lions in her state.  I am NOT SAYING Oregon is now in play. I am just saying if the election keeps moving in the direction it's been headed, it may be.  You gotta remember, McCain now has the Palin thing in his favor.  But he also has the Rove thing in his favor.  It won't be long before we hear that Barack Hussein Osama was a cocaine dealer, involved with organized crime, and other goodies.  We've already had the nonsense that he is a Muslim, he is ashamed of the flag and that he and his "ghetto wife" are militant, white-hating racists.  None of that will EVER come from John McCain's mouth.  But it will come from the 527's that support him.  And it will be every bit as effective as it was against John Kerry.  I don't think America has learned a damned thing.

I give McCain a 35% chance of winning... The Obama camp will paint him as Bush and it will not even be close on election day.

I hope you're right, Josh.  I really do.

Now seriously -- are you an Obama supporter?  Weren't you a McCain guy awhile back?  I can't keep my fellow forumites straight.

I think he came out of the closet in 2005 or 2006 and it changed his view of the world...or is that another guy?

[Person Man]

Like I say...I think we're toast.

Wow.  Seriously?

Yep.  And I am starting to think Oregon might be in play, too.  McCain is on his way to a borderline landslide unless he/she make a major misstep.

Why?

It's not just that she's female.  It's that she's a rugged sort, a northwesterner, an outdoors-type.  She's the John Tester of the GOP, except a hell of a lot better looking.  Oregon is always close.  My HOPE is that Oregon will see how extremely conservative she is on choice -- wanting to imprison abortive women and abortion providers -- and will reject her on that premise.  That said, they are going to like that she found middle ground on the gay rights issue, and that she has challenged the old conservative lions in her state.  I am NOT SAYING Oregon is now in play. I am just saying if the election keeps moving in the direction it's been headed, it may be.  You gotta remember, McCain now has the Palin thing in his favor.  But he also has the Rove thing in his favor.  It won't be long before we hear that Barack Hussein Osama was a cocaine dealer, involved with organized crime, and other goodies.  We've already had the nonsense that he is a Muslim, he is ashamed of the flag and that he and his "ghetto wife" are militant, white-hating racists.  None of that will EVER come from John McCain's mouth.  But it will come from the 527's that support him.  And it will be every bit as effective as it was against John Kerry.  I don't think America has learned a damned thing.

I think you're overreacting.  Take a deep breath, and relax.

Ben,

I may be overreacting.  I often do where my country is concerned.  

But I will tell you this.  We Democrats had better overreact.  We acted like it was in the bag for Gore in 2000.  Who WOULDN'T vote for the Vice President whose boss presided over the best economy in history?  Polls, notwithstanding...we thought it was a surefire win.  (By "we", I mean Democrats in their entirety.) Then, in 2004, after watching The Decider completely phuck up this country beyond all recognition -- militarily, economically and socially -- we were sure Americans would prefer an educated man with an unimpeachable record of patriotism.  How'd that work out?  This is what I am saying, Ben.  We have got to stop expecting voters to wake up and realize the Republican platform, the Republican candidate and the interests that support both do NOT have their best interests at heart.  We are sure that after eight years of The Decider, and now with a candidate who is almost indistinguishable on the issues, people will say, "Enough".  Nonsense.  This is a very conservative country.  Americans are easily frightened, easily led and easily duped.  And the people handling McCain know how to do it.  It's time we figured out how to fight it now.  I don't want to pick up my copy of The American Prospect a week after the election and then read a great article on what we should have done.  I am getting bloody tired of those!

Well, that's our problem right there. This country is simply too conservative to perserve itself (ironic). How do we change that?

[Person Man]

Although, seriously. If we can't win now, we may probably never win again.

[Person Man]

274-264 McCain/Palin win!

Not everything will be like 2004 forever.

I have my astrology and it has given me the correct map, which will be revealed later today.

You really know how to keep idiots in suspense.

Well, that's our problem right there. This country is simply too conservative to perserve itself (ironic). How do we change that?

I suppose the age=old argument is that once white working class persons become sufficiently impoverished by capitalism they will set aside their racism, hubris, and hatreds, and critique the system. 

People say this is what happened in the 1930s.  But I'm skeptical, as the same ugly system survived fully intact.  People also say that Europeans have been intelligent enough to not fall for oppression, and it is true they are not as stupid as the american  electorate.  But they still have enormous inequality.. just not such a hideously low low as we do.

I think it is safe to say that the masses will never stop yoking themselves willingly, nor passing the whip up to their master's hand.

I guess this election will simply mean that for their to be change, there will simply need to a greater environmental catalyst for change.

[Person Man]

As for that mentality, socially conservatives, voting against economic interest etc

Who are you to tell me what my interests are? You guys still don't have a clue as to why you can't win the White House.

1- I think this is an inaccurate generalization
2- There is some truth in that generalization
3- Perhaps there is some truth that we are telling people, and not asking people about their interests, and if the interests we espouse aren't their objective interests, then what are their interests? I mean, seriously. Do people have a desire to be abused? I mean, Islamic women have put up with it for 1000, in not 1400 years now and most of them appear content. Sure, this sounds harsh, but what am I supposed to think, in the instances when aflecitch's generalization is true, when people simply want to have subjective interests that are not their objective interests. I mean, if McCain wins, maybe I will "try" to be a conservative for a year to try to understand this and see if I can put my mind around it. Perhaps I could simply try to reason myself conservative and come to some right-wing or far-right forumite, class mate, friend or relative for the obvious emotional struggles that I will have.