Ukraine Crisis

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Thank god we have the mighty Swedish army in our side in this time of darkness.

All 50.000 of them!

Still, they'd probably kick our asses

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

One thing's for sure though...after this a majority of Ukrainians will never again allow their country to fall under Russia's sphere of influence.

I wish things were that simple.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

Russia still isn't our foe. They aren't threatening the United States at all.

Russia still can quite effectively block American moves in foreign policy, as we saw in 2013.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I suppose all this stuff with Russia just proves Sarah Palin right.

You mean Romney, when he said Russia and not China was the US's number one foe. Then he got hammered on and ridiculed.

Russia still isn't our foe. They aren't threatening the United States at all.

Russia still can quite effectively block American moves in foreign policy, as we saw in 2013.

Are you talking about Syria? Basically everyone agrees Russia did us a favor in that regard.

By preventing the U.S. from getting deep into this? Yes, but it's hard to deny it was a huge diplomatic victory for Russia and diplomatic defeat for the Obama administration.

I dislike Putin's regime as much as most of you guys, but I'm not going to be self-deluded by underestimating Russia.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Appearently some ships of the Russian Baltic fleet arrived at Crimea as well.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The mobilization might be an empty gesture. Even the regular army is obviously divided and waiting to see what happens. I doubt Kiev government would be in effective control regarding military matters.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

There are reports that the flagship of the Ukrainian Navy, the Hetman Sahaydachniy, has defected to Russia - including having raised the Russian flag.

That's exactly the problem.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Kaliningrad idea seems good on paper, but it's a fantasy.

First, the Russians are already using air and sea as a major transport venue. And how would you propose to cut it? By a naval blockade against the Russian Navy? You do realize this is an act of war.

Beside, Russia doesn't need to lift a single arm. Europe is still heavily dependant on their gas and oil. Very uncomfortable, but true. In such confrontation it'll be a matter of time before we would give in.

I'm sorry but what else do you expect? Let our economy utterly collapse or freeze to death in winter?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Christ J.J...

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Snowstalker, you're not helping your cause.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

As you all remember, I was one of those deeply concerned about the fascist groups participating in the events and I still am.

However, that does not excuse the Russian intervention, which is a blatant breach of the international law. Such action is making already fragile situation even more dangerous, playing right into the hands of extremists, not to mention all international implications.

Snowstalker, you can't consider yourself a real opponent of imperialism if you have no problem with what is Putin doing. If you don't, then you're a hypocrite not to be taken seriously (but I guess it's too late anyway).

And btw, Russians on Crimea were not threathen.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is unbearable

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sweet relief

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I remember a lecture by Otto von Habsburg, who told Putin was quite notorius during his time as KGB officer in Saxony. That was around 2002.

Did he elaborate, or stopped here?

I must say I always wanted to know more on Putin's professional record there.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Russia is apparently talking about building a bridge across the Kerch Strait (the strait at the eastern end of Crimea, at the entrance to the Sea of Azov); this would give a connection from Crimea to Russia without going through the rest of Ukraine.

They have been talking about it for ages. Of course that would make sense. One was built there during WW2 but it got broken by ice. Also the geological conditions seem to be very complicated to build a solid bridge.

Maybe we should give the Veto power to an another country from the ex soviet Union?

Who are "we" and how do you propose "we" should do that exactly ?

-Oh hey Vladou, mind if we strip you of your veto in the UNSC ?
-Not at all, West, go ahead, see if I care !
-Oh and you wouldn't be a permanent member either...
-No worries, mate. Who are you getting in ?
-Well, we thought about Estonia. Nothing sure yet.
-Good, good.
-See ya !

Taiwan was ousted without any problem, so why not Russia?

Can we please talk the events and viable solutions, instead of fantasy and excessive hyperboles?

I know this is Atlas and my call might be a fantasy as well, but deep down I'm still a naive fool believing we can somehow be reasonable.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I've always considered ag as one of the most reasonable people here. That's why I'm disturbed with him predicting the doomsday.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Maybe we should give the Veto power to an another country from the ex soviet Union?

Who are "we" and how do you propose "we" should do that exactly ?

-Oh hey Vladou, mind if we strip you of your veto in the UNSC ?
-Not at all, West, go ahead, see if I care !
-Oh and you wouldn't be a permanent member either...
-No worries, mate. Who are you getting in ?
-Well, we thought about Estonia. Nothing sure yet.
-Good, good.
-See ya !

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Russia is considered a successor-state of the Soviet Union as far as international relations are concerned.

Taiwan precedent doesn't really apply. There were two governments (Taipei and Beijing) claiming to be China's sole representation. You can't seriously spin Georgia or Lithuania or Estonia or Kazakhstan as the USSR successor. These countries did secede, Russia did not. Beside, Baltic states does not recognize their time as the Soviet Republic as legitimate.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Russia is considered a successor-state of the Soviet Union as far as international relations are concerned.

Taiwan precedent doesn't really apply. There were two governments (Taipei and Beijing) claiming to be China's sole representation. You can't seriously spin Georgia or Lithuania or Estonia or Kazakhstan as the USSR successor. These countries did secede, Russia did not. Beside, Baltic states does not recognize their time as the Soviet Republic as legitimate.

I agree that Russia is the logical choice, as is the PRC in the case of China, yet the UN has not always been constrained by logic.

Of course but it's a longshot. Beside, I don't think the other powers sitting in the Security Council would be thrilled with the precedent of removing one of them, regardless of what is going on now.

I find the Taiwan analogy quite ridiculous, as we're talking about a little island. Russia, as well as other permanent members, are not little and relatively weak islands.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Black Sea Fleet has told the Crimean Ukrainian forces to surrender by 0300 GMT or face a "storm."

Meanwhile, the Russian TV is proclaiming that all Ukrainian forces as Crimea has already swore an oath of alliegance to the "Army of Crimea".

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Maybe we should give the Veto power to an another country from the ex soviet Union?

Who are "we" and how do you propose "we" should do that exactly ?

-Oh hey Vladou, mind if we strip you of your veto in the UNSC ?
-Not at all, West, go ahead, see if I care !
-Oh and you wouldn't be a permanent member either...
-No worries, mate. Who are you getting in ?
-Well, we thought about Estonia. Nothing sure yet.
-Good, good.
-See ya !

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Russia is considered a successor-state of the Soviet Union as far as international relations are concerned.

Taiwan precedent doesn't really apply. There were two governments (Taipei and Beijing) claiming to be China's sole representation. You can't seriously spin Georgia or Lithuania or Estonia or Kazakhstan as the USSR successor. These countries did secede, Russia did not. Beside, Baltic states does not recognize their time as the Soviet Republic as legitimate.

Oops - check out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

Russia seceded on December 12, 1991, two weeks before the USSR was formally dissolved. The last one to put out the lights was Kazakhstan.
[Not that having Kazakhstan replace Russia as UNSC veto power would really be much of an improvement....]

The other article says it did not, though I was probably incorrect. Thanks.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

There will be a great musical made about this incident one day.

(Putin:)
If someday it may happen that a victim must be found
I've got a little list, I've got a little list
Of society's offenders who may well be underground
And who never would be missed, they never would be missed.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

There will be a great musical made about this incident one day.

(Putin:)
If someday it may happen that a victim must be found
I've got a little list, I've got a little list
Of society's offenders who may well be underground
And who never would be missed, they never would be missed.

Stop stealing my gimmick.

I knew it'll work.

Where have you been?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Oh, no doubt Russia would win but Ukraine's armed forces comprises of 130,000 troops, over 1,000 tanks, 221 planes and 17 combat vessels according to the BBC. It would lose but do some damage.

But how much of that is loyal to the Ukrainian gov't?

We've already know it's problematic, to put it mildly.

If the Russians won't go beyond Crimea (which is, IMO, more likely than not), we might very well look at the Czechoslovak scenario from 1968: very little to no fighting.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

FTR, those divisions dates far earlier than the Habsburg Empire. At least to the moment Zaporizhia Cossacks divided into those in the West, remaining loyal to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and those in the East, that switched allegiance to the Tsar.

Man, we really did f**k up the Cossack question.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

There are virtually no ethnic Russians in Lithuania, so try again.

Over 5% of the Lithuanian population is not much, as in other post-Soviet countries, but that's hardly virtually none.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

Ignorance? Last I checked Gibraltar and the Falklands were British while eastern Ukraine most certainly is not Russian.

I'm pretty sure the troll meant there is a substantial number of ethnic Russians there and the region is trending toward Moscow.