Which country has the best Health Care System?

[scorpiogurl]

As a worker in the UK National Health Service, I was wondering what the views are on which country has the best health care system and which is the best way of funding such a system?

For those who are unaware, the UK NHS is funded through general taxation and national insurance (really further taxation). In 2005 the cost of the NHS is due to be approx $144 Bn. (This is about 7-8% GDP compared with Germany and France who spend in excess of 10% GDP).

The founding principles of the NHS were that healthcare (second to none) would be provided equitably and equally to the whole population of the UK and that it would be free on demand.

The reality of healthcare in the UK has unfortunately not lived up to these principles. Increasing costs has put an increasing strain on budgets and consequently healthcare has become increasingly mediocre in comparison with other European countries and North America.

Although, healthcare is still free on delivery, I feel that the quality of this healthcare is suspect.

In the UK, discussion of the future of the NHS is a very emotive issue. If any political party seriously suggests removing the "free on delivery" ethos...........the party effectively commits politcal suicide.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me on how the US, Canadian and other European systems works and suggest a way forward for healthcare, as I believe the cost and quality of healthcare will become an increasingly important issue!

[Tory]

Where in the UK are you?

The answer is Australia without a doubt. Ireland runs second.

[scorpiogurl]

Birmingham Tory!!! you?

[Tory]

London.

What brings you to an American politics site?

[scorpiogurl]

London.

What brings you to an American politics site?

I got quite interested in the US election campaign etc......found this site and got "hooked" I guess.

[David S]

In my humble opinion, a competitive free market system (i.e. capitalism) is the best means of providing quality goods and services at the lowest prices. In the U.S. our healthcare system doesn't really work that way. In most cases the person receiving the services is not the one who pays. Its either medicare, medicaid or private health insurance, that pays the bill. For the free market to work right the person receiving the goods must make his decision based on price. When that happens people tend to be good shoppers and look for the best deals. That creates a competitive force which drives prices down. Socialist systems cannot match that for efficiency, or innovation.

Two areas of healthcare which still operate in the free market system are vision correction surgery and over-the-counter drugs. Vision correction surgery is usually not covered by either the government run programs or private insurance, so the patient must pay out of pocket. So what is the result? 15 years ago the procedure cost about $3000 per eye. Today there are many providers who offer it for less than $1000 per eye and I've seen some ads for as low as $300 per eye. In short the cost came down by a huge amount while other healthcare costs have been going up like a rocket. Providers of this service know they have to be competitive to get any business, so they keep their costs down and even advertise their prices to attract  customers. The equipment manufacturers are also forced by competition to keep their prices down and to search for innovative ways of doing the surgery better and for less money. All of this is a huge benefit to the customer.

With over-the-counter drugs, again the user usually has to pay out of pocket. Most drug stores have a huge display of products. Competitive products are laid out side by side so the consumer can compare products and prices and make the best selection based on his needs and budget. The products are safe, effective and reasonably priced.

By contrast, prescription drugs don't work that way. First you have to go to your doctor. Thats a big cost right there. Then the doctor writes a prescription; a scrap of paper with an illegible note written on it. You go to the druggist and hand him the note. (If he correctly deciphers it you will get the proper drug. On the other hand if he misreads it, you get the wrong drug and possibly become one of the 100,000 people killed each year by medical misadventures.)
Generally price is not discussed and you don't know the cost until he hands you the bottle and the bill. The actual cost is usually much higher than for over-the-counter drugs, but you don't complain about it because your insurance covers most of it. In reality though you do pay for it because your insurance company has to raise your premiums or the government has to raise your taxes to cover it.

[Tory]

London.

What brings you to an American politics site?

I got quite interested in the US election campaign etc......found this site and got "hooked" I guess.

Which British party do you typically vote for?

[scorpiogurl]

In my humble opinion, a competitive free market system (i.e. capitalism) is the best means of providing quality goods and services at the lowest prices. In the U.S. our healthcare system doesn't really work that way. In most cases the person receiving the services is not the one who pays. Its either medicare, medicaid or private health insurance, that pays the bill. For the free market to work right the person receiving the goods must make his decision based on price. When that happens people tend to be good shoppers and look for the best deals. That creates a competitive force which drives prices down. Socialist systems cannot match that for efficiency, or innovation.

David, if a person is on medicare are they entitled to choose what hospital/doctor/treatment they get or is this dictated by the medicare system? If they pay for their own private insurance.....again do they as individuals choose the hospitals/doctors/treatment etc or is this dictated by the insurance company.......relating to cost etc

BTW we too have to buy some of our healthcare, namely a lot of dental treatment, eye tests and we pay about $10-12 per item for prescription drugs.

[Bono]

I sure know Portugal isn't the one.

[scorpiogurl]

London.

What brings you to an American politics site?

I got quite interested in the US election campaign etc......found this site and got "hooked" I guess.

Which British party do you typically vote for?

Well..........in the last general election I voted Labour......sorry. But to be truthful I don't typically vote for any party.....if that makes sense

[Tory]

Nothing to be sorry about! I'll probably vote Labour in the next general election, as long as I'm reasonably sure that Blair will finish his term.

[scorpiogurl]

Nothing to be sorry about! I'll probably vote Labour in the next general election, as long as I'm reasonably sure that Blair will finish his term.

You'll need to change your name then Tory LOL!!! :-) They reckon Blair will do at least 2.5 years of a third term........one of the reasons to vote Labour is that their is no real alternative sadly. The Tories are unelectable and the Liberals cannot win :-(

[Tory]

I'm still a Tory! I just don't like Howard and Blair is tolerable. I'm not sure if I want Brown in office though. The Liberals aren't an option for me, I hate them with a passion.

[scorpiogurl]

In my humble opinion, a competitive free market system (i.e. capitalism) is the best means of providing quality goods and services at the lowest prices. In the U.S. our healthcare system doesn't really work that way. In most cases the person receiving the services is not the one who pays. Its either medicare, medicaid or private health insurance, that pays the bill. For the free market to work right the person receiving the goods must make his decision based on price. When that happens people tend to be good shoppers and look for the best deals. That creates a competitive force which drives prices down. Socialist systems cannot match that for efficiency, or innovation.

David, if a person is on medicare are they entitled to choose what hospital/doctor/treatment they get or is this dictated by the medicare system? If they pay for their own private insurance.....again do they as individuals choose the hospitals/doctors/treatment etc or is this dictated by the insurance company.......relating to cost etc

BTW we too have to buy some of our healthcare, namely a lot of dental treatment, eye tests and we pay about $10-12 per item for prescription drugs.

Whoops, sorry this is a repeat....made a boo boo with the last one LOL

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[??????????]

The US has the most advanced medical care in the world.

[David S]

In my humble opinion, a competitive free market system (i.e. capitalism) is the best means of providing quality goods and services at the lowest prices. In the U.S. our healthcare system doesn't really work that way. In most cases the person receiving the services is not the one who pays. Its either medicare, medicaid or private health insurance, that pays the bill. For the free market to work right the person receiving the goods must make his decision based on price. When that happens people tend to be good shoppers and look for the best deals. That creates a competitive force which drives prices down. Socialist systems cannot match that for efficiency, or innovation.

David, if a person is on medicare are they entitled to choose what hospital/doctor/treatment they get or is this dictated by the medicare system? If they pay for their own private insurance.....again do they as individuals choose the hospitals/doctors/treatment etc or is this dictated by the insurance company.......relating to cost etc

BTW we too have to buy some of our healthcare, namely a lot of dental treatment, eye tests and we pay about $10-12 per item for prescription drugs.

Medicare is for the elderly and medicaid is for the poor. I don't qualify for either so I can't tell you for sure, but I think you can choose your doctors and hospitals, although some doctors will not accept medicare.

As for insurance, some cover you at any doctor or hospital.
PPOs (preferred provider organization) offer a long list of participating doctors and hospitals. You can go outside that system but the percentage covered is less.
HMOs (health maintenance organizations) offer the fewest choices in providers, but usually they cover more of the expenses than PPOs.

[scorpiogurl]

In my humble opinion, a competitive free market system (i.e. capitalism) is the best means of providing quality goods and services at the lowest prices. In the U.S. our healthcare system doesn't really work that way. In most cases the person receiving the services is not the one who pays. Its either medicare, medicaid or private health insurance, that pays the bill. For the free market to work right the person receiving the goods must make his decision based on price. When that happens people tend to be good shoppers and look for the best deals. That creates a competitive force which drives prices down. Socialist systems cannot match that for efficiency, or innovation.

David, if a person is on medicare are they entitled to choose what hospital/doctor/treatment they get or is this dictated by the medicare system? If they pay for their own private insurance.....again do they as individuals choose the hospitals/doctors/treatment etc or is this dictated by the insurance company.......relating to cost etc

BTW we too have to buy some of our healthcare, namely a lot of dental treatment, eye tests and we pay about $10-12 per item for prescription drugs.

Medicare is for the elderly and medicaid is for the poor. I don't qualify for either so I can't tell you for sure, but I think you can choose your doctors and hospitals, although some doctors will not accept medicare.

As for insurance, some cover you at any doctor or hospital.
PPOs (preferred provider organization) offer a long list of participating doctors and hospitals. You can go outside that system but the percentage covered is less.
HMOs (health maintenance organizations) offer the fewest choices in providers, but usually they cover more of the expenses than PPOs.

Thanks for that David :-)
What is approximate insurance cost for say...........a healthy middle age adult?

[A18]

I'm still a Tory! I just don't like Howard and Blair is tolerable. I'm not sure if I want Brown in office though. The Liberals aren't an option for me, I hate them with a passion.

I guess you don't vote separately for Prime Minister like we do in the US? Indirectly, through parliament?

[scorpiogurl]

I'm still a Tory! I just don't like Howard and Blair is tolerable. I'm not sure if I want Brown in office though. The Liberals aren't an option for me, I hate them with a passion.

I guess you don't vote separately for Prime Minister like we do in the US? Indirectly, through parliament?

You got it Philip........we vote for a member of parliament. The party with the largest number of MPs usually forms the government with its leader as Prime Minister 

[David S]

BTW I would agree with Senator States that healthcare here is excellent, but the costs are rising rapidly. Even huge corporations like General Motors are staggering under the weight of medical costs for their employees and retirees. I think something is going to give sooner or later.
Neither Republicans or Democrats seem inclined to consider free market solutions, so my guess is that the country will adopt a more socialist plan.

My observations of socialist systems lead me to believe that they progress something like this;
1) Euphoria- everything is free!
2) Costs rising- This is visible to the politicians but not necessarily to the citizens.
3) Further rising costs prompt politicians to raise taxes.
4) Citizens get angry with high taxes.
5) Politicians realize they must do something to cover costs but are fearful of raising taxes.
6)Politicians enact  wage and price controls to keep costs down. Costs keep rising. Doctors get angry.
7) Politicians create rationing schemes. Shortages occur. Waiting lists occur. Patients get angry. Costs keep rising.
Doctors begin leaving the system because of wage limits. They advise young people to avoid the profession because the compensation does not justify the years of schooling required. Doctor shortage begins to appear.
9) Goes downhill from there.

Just my opinion.

[Tory]

The US has the most advanced medical care in the world.

That's nice for the millionaires that can afford it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The answer depends on how much money you have and how well you are...

If you're rich, the U.S.A has by far the best Healthcare system in the world. No disputing that at all.

But if you're poor or have a long term condition, the NHS is excellent (I know this from personal experiance).

Everything is relative

[Richard]

The US has the most advanced medical care in the world.

That's nice for the millionaires that can afford it.

You don't need to be a milionaire.  Quit exaggerating.  You're asking for opinions, so don't sh**t on one.

I agree.  As a Canadian, we have probably the worst one of all industrialized nations.  I would go south of the border for serious conditions.  The United States have by far the best health care system in the world.  After some tort reforms, it will be even more affordable.

[Tory]

She didn't ask what nation had the best healthcare, she asked which has the best healthcare SYSTEM. Nobody can contend that America has the best, because half the people in the United States can't afford healthcare. So maybe you don't need to be a millionaire, but if you are lower middle class an operation in the U.S. will devastate your families finances.

[scorpiogurl]

The US has the most advanced medical care in the world.

That's nice for the millionaires that can afford it.

You don't need to be a milionaire.  Quit exaggerating.  You're asking for opinions, so don't sh**t on one.

Whoops Richius......I never made that quote......mistaken identity!!!

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