Which country has the best Health Care System?

[Tory]

Are you implying that everyone who isn't of means is a socialist? I'm so glad you don't live here.

[??????????]

Anyone in this country can recieve medical attention. We have medicaid and medicare. No hospital will turn you away at all.

I said that already, no one seems to want to listen.

An uninsured friend of mine had his appendix out in an emergency operation.  Total cost, 15k.  After going through an arbitration he is going to pay 5k over 5 years.  Reasonable cost for an operation and 2 nights in the hospital.

Thanks to the wonderful way we deal with health insurance all our costs are grossly overinflated, but no one ever pays full price.  Insurance companies have deals with providers to pay roughly 1/3rd of the cost, the real, actual cost before bloating.  Anyone can get the same deal since hospitals would much rather actually get paid than have someone declare bankruptcy and never pay them.

The funny thing is medical bills do not go on your credit report and it is illegal for them to take your house over medical debt. I don't know if that's just florida law or national law.

[Richard]

Are you implying that everyone who isn't of means is a socialist? I'm so glad you don't live here.

I'm saying everyone who isn't of means that demands other people's money is a socialist.  You're one of them it seems.

And don't worry, I'm glad I don't live there either.

[Tory]

Are you implying that everyone who isn't of means is a socialist? I'm so glad you don't live here.

I'm saying everyone who isn't of means that demands other people's money is a socialist.  You're one of them it seems.

And don't worry, I'm glad I don't live there either.

I don't demand others money. I've never recieved financial assistance in my life. I just like to know that my fellow countymen are willing to help me out if I fall on hard times. And they are, because Labour doesn't look like it's going anywhere.

I hope you lose all of that money you were born into. And don't try to tell me you worked for what you have, because I know that's what your going to try to do and it's a lie.

[Richard]

I don't demand others money. I've never recieved financial assistance in my life.

Ever used your health service?  Guess what?  You used other people's money.

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Ask your family or friends.  Keep your hands off my money.  I worked to earn it, and it is my right to spend it as I want to.

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I was born with money?  OK buckwheat, lets get a few things straight.  I'm a student.  I don't own a car.  Or a house.  I am co-op meaning I get to earn enough money the work semester to pay off the next semester's tuition, books, accomodation, and stuff.  And I have some scholarships.  That is it.  I'm not rich.  And I don't make a lot of money.  But I'm self sufficient.  And I work hard.

I really don't know where you get this from.  From thin air it seems.

[Tory]

It's called D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y. The people of Britain have decided that there should be more welfare spending. They have therefore decided that they want to give more of thier money to help people.

So your poor?!!!! You must be a socialist. You shouldn't get the right to vote.

BTW, your telling me you haven't used the healthcare in Canada?

[Richard]

It's called D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y.

Lets take a vote.  Should the government give every person $5,000?

a) Yes
b) No


Do you see a problem with this?

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The people of Britian are stupid, and their country is going down the toilet.  The immigration lines to the United States are full.

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Dear me.  I have never claimed welfare, and I've never gotten any.  Second, I said that those that are poor that DEMAND OTHER PEOPLE's MONEY are parasites and shouldn't vote.  I'm not rich, but I don't demand other people's money.  Third, there is nothing wrong with being poor.  It is wrong to think you're entitled to someone else's money.

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I have not.  We don't have family doctors, probably because there ain't any.  I've never been to the hospital in Canada.  I go to the dentist but I pay for it.  I went to the eye doctor but I paid for that too.  And I don't do this whole drugs thing.

[Tory]

What does the govt giving everyone 5000 dollars have to do with anything?

Actually our country isn't going down the toilet. We have lower unemployment and lower crime than the U.S. I don't care if immigration lines into the U.S. are full, that means nothing.

I know you didn't say you have recieved welfare. I haven't either, yet you called me a socialist because I don't have a big fat bank account.

You have never been to a hospital? You're a liar.

[Richard]

What does the govt giving everyone 5000 dollars have to do with anything?

Connect the dots.  It isn't hard.  You spelt out democracy as the reason for redistributing the wealth.  Now lets exercise democratic principles and do that poll.  Hell, lets make it $1,000,000.

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That is nice.  It is also nice that you've decided to completely ignore the fact that the UK, Europe, and the United States uses different methods to build statistics, especially unemployment rate.  I do not understand how you can even think of making such a comparison unless you move to common ground and adjust the figures for different indicators used.

Crime rate.  Well, lets see.  That is relative.  Again, you're mixing statistics.  You need to quit doing that.  What crime are you talking about?  Homicides?  True.  Your homicide rate is lower.  Burglary?  False.  Your burglary rate is incredibly high compared to the United States.  It is very mixed.  A generalization is very difficult to make and I can easily attack you on that.

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I called you a socialist because you stated that you'd be unable to afford health care in the United States and that you feel you're entitled to it.  That is a socialist.  Not the size of your bank acount.  Soros is a socialist, but he is rich.

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In Canada.  I wasn't born in Canada, and I've been here only 4 years.  I'm not a liar.  Please do not accuse me of things you have no knowledge of.

[Tory]

4 years? Why then did you come to Canada, a place you consider terrible? What rathole did you come from where insanity like yours is commonplace?

[Richard]

4 years? Why then did you come to Canada, a place you consider terrible? What rathole did you come from where insanity like yours is commonplace?

My family and I are refugees.  We came from a much worse place that had a fascist government in place.  Which is one reason why I hate fascism and communism so much.

Canada is a nice country, but it has a terrible social welfare system that encourages people to be lazy and irresponsible.  People are not held accountable for their actions.

[Tory]

Which country is that?

Couldn't your beloved U.S. take your family in? Oh no, the only country that would take you in is 'socialist'.

[Richard]

Which country is that?

It really isn't your business.

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"taking in" is hardly a socialist tradition.  Look at the Soviet Union and North Korea.

We came to Canada because it is the first place my dad got a job.

[Tory]

You're the one that brought it up smartass.

The Soviet Union and North Korea aren't socialist. They believe in government run economies, not mixed economies. The UK is a social democrat nation, not a socialist one by the way.

You spend four years in a country you dislike because it was the first place you dad got a job? That seems fairly odd.

[Richard]

You're the one that brought it up smartass.

The Soviet Union and North Korea aren't socialist. They believe in government run economies, not mixed economies. The UK is a social democrat nation, not a socialist one by the way.

Yes they are socialist.  And so is Cuba.  And the UK is socialist too.  It just so happens that the UK is less socialist than the three of them.  For the time being.

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Living with your family seems odd?

[Tory]

No, you don't know the differance between socialism and communism. That's sad.

You're 24. If you were living with your parents at the age of twenty, yes that's odd.

[Tory]

Oh, I see you've changed your profile to say your 21. Nice.

[Richard]

Oh, I see you've changed your profile to say your 21. Nice.

Yes, I corrected it.  I never put my real birthdate in registrations.  The one I have in now is fictious, but the year is correct.  I'm still in university, so that should have ticked you off.  Sorry about that.

[Richard]

No, you don't know the differance between socialism and communism. That's sad.

There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism--by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.

Who said that?

[Tory]

I don't care who said it.

I smoked a bag of draw earlier and I'm going to lay down.

[Richard]

More on socialism and communism:


"The essential characteristic of socialism is the denial of individual property rights; under socialism, the right to property (which is the right of use and disposal) is vested in 'society as a whole,' i.e., in the collective, with production and distribution controlled by the state, i.e., by the government.

"Socialism may be established by force, as in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics--or by vote, as in Nazi (National Socialist) Germany. The degree of socialization may be total, as in Russia--or partial, as in England. Theoretically, the differences are superficial; practically, they are only a matter of time. The basic principle, in all cases, is the same.

"The alleged goals of socialism were: the abolition of poverty, the achievement of general prosperity, progress, peace and human brotherhood. The results have been a terrifying failure--terrifying, that is, if one's motive is men's welfare.

"Instead of prosperity, socialism has brought economic paralysis and/or collapse to every country that tried it. The degree of socialization has been the degree of disaster. The consequences have varied accordingly."



She is brilliant.

[Tory]

I don't care what Maggie said about socialists, beacuse I'm not one!

[Maastricht]

The WHO made a classification or something like that in 2000 (of course it changed a lot)
link->http://www.medcost.fr/html/economie_sante_eco/eco_070700.htm (sorry, in french, I didn't find the official website for those statistics)

PAYS  CLASSEMENT (position)
 
France 1
Italie 2
Saint-Marin 3
Andorre 4
Malte 5
Singapour 6
Espagne 7
Oman 8
Autriche 9
Japon 10
Norvège 11
Portugal 12
Monaco 13
Grèce 14
Islande 15
Luxembourg 16
Pays-Bas 17
Royaume-Uni 18
Irlande 19
Suisse 20
Belgique 21
Swaziland 177
Tchad 178
Somalie 179
Ethiopie 180
Angola 181
Zambie 182
Lesotho 183
Mozambique 184
Malawi 185
Libéria 186
Nigeria 187
République Démocratique du Congo 188
République centrafricaine 189
Myanmar 190
Sierra Leone 191

The surprise is Oman's system : in the 70s their system was really bad, but they made great public investments, and it's now one of the best. Now french system is becoming bad : no funds, no nurses ( France had to recruit thousands of spanish nurses), surgeons or doctors working 70h a week, etc. I think the best is now the japanese one, or maybe the spanish ...

[Richard]

Of course the commie WHO will point to other commie nations and say "look they have the best healthcare system in the world."

[John Dibble]

To the original question - 'best' is relative. My best and your best could easily be different. In terms of quality and advancement, the U.S. is the best. In terms of availability and affordability to the public, the U.S. is likely not the best.

However, I think this needs to be said - other countries around the world, socialist or not in their healthcare systems, rely on the U.S. for much of their medical advancements. Socialist countries do sometimes advance their medicine, but there is little motivation compared to the motivation of profit that is present in the U.S. system. We have quite a number of private companies working constantly to advance medicine - are they altruistic? Probably not, but they want to get the job done so they can make money. These companies also want to sell their products in other markets, so they sell to other countries, socialist or not. Unfortunately for the socialist countries, their systems sometime set price caps too low, so they don't end up getting these new products until they become cheaper(generic) which can end up costing lives.