Ukraine Crisis

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

[Silent Hunter]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Better than Georgia, but they're not brilliant. While the Russians would take casualties, they'd still win.

The Ukrainian ambassador to the EU has said they will push for Russia to lose its World Cup place.

[YL]

There is some doubt about the existence of the ultimatum.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Better than Georgia, but they're not brilliant. While the Russians would take casualties, they'd still win.

The Ukrainian ambassador to the EU has said they will push for Russia to lose its World Cup place.

Oh, no doubt Russia would win but Ukraine's armed forces comprises of 130,000 troops, over 1,000 tanks, 221 planes and 17 combat vessels according to the BBC. It would lose but do some damage.

[CatoMinor]

Oh, no doubt Russia would win but Ukraine's armed forces comprises of 130,000 troops, over 1,000 tanks, 221 planes and 17 combat vessels according to the BBC. It would lose but do some damage.

But how much of that is loyal to the Ukrainian gov't?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Oh, no doubt Russia would win but Ukraine's armed forces comprises of 130,000 troops, over 1,000 tanks, 221 planes and 17 combat vessels according to the BBC. It would lose but do some damage.

But how much of that is loyal to the Ukrainian gov't?

We've already know it's problematic, to put it mildly.

If the Russians won't go beyond Crimea (which is, IMO, more likely than not), we might very well look at the Czechoslovak scenario from 1968: very little to no fighting.

[User157088589849]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Russians in Donetsk, Kharkiv dont want this fascist ukrainian government.

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

[JerryArkansas]

Who thinks this could set a dangerous precedent for other countries.  

[MaxQue]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Russians in Donetsk, Kharkiv dont want this fascist ukrainian government.

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

Hello, Voice of Russia propaganda.

[Franzl]

Who thinks this could set a dangouse precident for other counties. 

No, I don't think it will set a dangouse precident for other counties.

[User157088589849]

Who thinks this could set a dangouse precident for other counties. 

This ethnic russians fighting for their rights. They WANT russian troops in there part of Ukraine. They are terrified of this fascist Ukrainian government. Western Ukraine use to be part of the austria-hungarian empire, they have always hated russia.

[JerryArkansas]

Who thinks this could set a dangouse precident for other counties. 

No, I don't think it will set a dangouse precident for other counties.

Sorry, I suck at spelling, and this laptop has no spell check for some reason.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Who thinks this could set a dangouse precident for other counties. 

No, I don't think it will set a dangouse precident for other counties.

You sure? Alameda's been sabre-rattling against Marin IIRC.

[MaxQue]

Who thinks this could set a dangouse precident for other counties. 

This ethnic russians fighting for their rights. They WANT russian troops in there part of Ukraine. They are terrified of this fascist Ukrainian government. Western Ukraine use to be part of the austria-hungarian empire, they have always hated russia.

Are you Bristol Palin? You sound dense like Sarah.

[THE_TITAN]

So a little under 12 hours to war then?  The only question appears to be whether Russia fires first or is able to successfully spook Ukraine into doing so.

Personally, I think the Ukrainians may well surrrender. It's the sensible thing to do now; there are too many Russian forces in Crimea.

Agreed, the should surrender for the moment. But let's not forget that Ukraine doesn't have some mickey mouse armed forces, their army is pretty strong and well-resourced. Russia would be foolish to enter into conflict.

Russians in Donetsk, Kharkiv dont want this fascist ukrainian government.

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

If they are Russians then they should move back to Russia. Who are they to tell the Ukrainian people what to do? Ukrainian people have rallied in Kiev for a pro-European government, yes it takes the form of a (mainly) centre-right coalition, but it hardly makes them fascists as you put it. If anyone is acting like a fascist it is Mr. Putin for not respecting sovereign territory and invading for expansionist purposes.

[Beezer]

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

There are virtually no ethnic Russians in Lithuania, so try again.

[User157088589849]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

However, the DISPUTE is the ukrainians occupying kiev. These are from the austria-hungarian empire part of ukraine that have been bought up for generations hating russians. The media is not doing a good job at explaining this.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

This is a situation created by american money funding fascists in ukraine to remove a democratically elected leader. Its completely unacceptable and this is why putin will not stand down. He will protect the ethnic russians like britain would defend the falkland islands.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

FTR, those divisions dates far earlier than the Habsburg Empire. At least to the moment Zaporizhia Cossacks divided into those in the West, remaining loyal to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and those in the East, that switched allegiance to the Tsar.

Man, we really did f**k up the Cossack question.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Plus there are rumblings in Riga, Vilnius with the ethnic russians.

There are virtually no ethnic Russians in Lithuania, so try again.

Over 5% of the Lithuanian population is not much, as in other post-Soviet countries, but that's hardly virtually none.

[Beezer]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

Ignorance? Last I checked Gibraltar and the Falklands were British while eastern Ukraine most certainly is not Russian.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

Ignorance? Last I checked Gibraltar and the Falklands were British while eastern Ukraine most certainly is not Russian.

I'm pretty sure the troll meant there is a substantial number of ethnic Russians there and the region is trending toward Moscow.

[Beezer]

Over 5% of the Lithuanian population is not much, as in other post-Soviet countries, but that's hardly virtually none.

Well, there are more Poles in LT than Russians. Arguing that Russians are causing trouble in Vilnius and that this could precipitate another intervention is like saying that Turkish protests in Germany could cause Erdogan to act.

[Beezer]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

Ignorance? Last I checked Gibraltar and the Falklands were British while eastern Ukraine most certainly is not Russian.

I'm pretty sure the troll meant there is a substantial number of ethnic Russians there and the region is trending toward Moscow.

Yes but that doesn't change the fact that the comparison makes no sense seeing as the Falklands war was a war waged by Britain to defend their own territory. This little detail separates that armed conflict from today's

[THE_TITAN]

I think there is alot of ignorance on here. Ukrainians and Russians view each other as brothers and sisters. They both dont want to fight, they both dont want to shoot bullets at each other.

However, the DISPUTE is the ukrainians occupying kiev. These are from the austria-hungarian empire part of ukraine that have been bought up for generations hating russians. The media is not doing a good job at explaining this.

Donetsk, Kharkiv and Crimea want russian troops in  the country. Its like the falkland islands, gibraltor for the British. If the russians went back, the ethnic russians would feel terrified.

This is a situation created by american money funding fascists in ukraine to remove a democratically elected leader. Its completely unacceptable and this is why putin will not stand down. He will protect the ethnic russians like britain would defend the falkland islands.

What a load of old tosh. You speak for all Ukrainians that they view Russians as their brothers and sisters? HA! I would challenge you to say that to Crimean Tatar or the family of one of those shot on Kiev for demonstrating against closer ties to Russia.

It's nothing like the Falklands or Gibraltar because they are British Overseas Territories. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, Russia doesn't own it as much as they don't own Latvia or Lithuania. To argue against this would be stupid.

Ethnic Russians can go move to Russia if they are so loved by Mr. Putin. I hardly think a nation wanting to join the EU will be implementing harsh policies against that section of the populace if they actually want to gain accession.

I've never heard so much rubbish in my life, well except from people like Peter Hitchens.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'm not particularly crazy about manipulating with existing European borders.