Ukraine Crisis

[CatoMinor]

I think it is safe to call that this thread has officially been killed by Snowstalker.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is unbearable

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Sweet relief

[ilikeverin]

Now here's a tough question: is there a single politician in Ukraine - of any persuasion - who isn't a complete idiot?

Yulia's braids.  Not her herself, but her braids seem pretty intelligent.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Enter a lonely, courageous Ukrainian rebel, a leading investigative journalist. A dark-skinned journalist who gets racially profiled by the regime. And a Muslim. And an Afghan. This is Mustafa Nayem, the man who started the revolution. Using social media, he called students and other young people to rally on the main square of Kiev in support of a European choice for Ukraine. That square is called the Maidan, which by the way is an Arab word. During the first few days of the protests the students called it the Euromaidan. Russian propaganda called it, predictably enough, the Gayeuromaidan.

This part is of course hilarious. I hope it's meant in parody. As if a lonely courageous guy had started a super cool revolution by himself on #Twitter !!!1!1!! Seriously.

Snowstalker, I agree with you on the fundamentals. But you could word things better.

Of course, it's not a revolution if it's not the working people's revolution. Things will be awful when any government of pro-EU oligarchs start to implement EU austerity at its finest and the people is wholly disappointed and doesn't know what to do next.

But you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-Russia side is indeed worst in its actions than the pro-EU one. That doesn't mean that either of them is good for on the long-term for the working class though.

The new government is almost guaranteed to become unpopular. Just like Yushchenko did. When that happens though, at least they won't send snipers to shoot the protesters.

The next next election will result in a left-wing candidate coming to power. Hopefully the voters aren't stupid enough to make it Yanukovych again.

1. I doubt that the new government would be above violence.
2. Yanukovych is not remotely left-wing, nor is there a coherent or organized left in Ukraine.

1. What are you basing this belief on? Wishful thinking mostly.
2. Well, not to your standards, no. A candidate campaigning against austerity (regardless of how sincere) will win though.

The FN in France and the BNP in Britain are nominally anti-austerity too. Does that make them leftists?

[bgwah]

Seriously. This was an interesting thread on a serious topic. The mods ban Opebo but allow this sh**t? Ridiculous.

[afleitch]

I'm fine with giving people enough rope to hang themselves with.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think it is safe to call that this thread has officially been killed by Snowstalker.

He's our resident serial-killer.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Now here's a tough question: is there a single politician in Ukraine - of any persuasion - who isn't a complete idiot?

Fixed.

[Cassius]

One mistake Bush seemed to do was think that Putin was a great guy. As low as an opinion of Bush I had, I assumed he would have realized that Putin was a worse guy than himself. Of course, Republicans are conveniently forgetting that when they attack Obama now. Maybe Bush liked the flat tax Putin had just implemented.

To be fair to Bush, didn't he make that comment (some of which is hardly innacurate- the bits about Putin's patriotism and so forth) at a time when Putin was a relatively unknown quantity, and indeed, in some quarters, seen as a breath of fresh air after the Yeltsin years. So, I can understand Bush trying to hit it off with Putin, especially since, at the time, there was some (albeit rather wishful) thinking that America and Russia could make good strategic partners with rgeards to some of the changes happening in Asia at the time.

Enter a lonely, courageous Ukrainian rebel, a leading investigative journalist. A dark-skinned journalist who gets racially profiled by the regime. And a Muslim. And an Afghan. This is Mustafa Nayem, the man who started the revolution. Using social media, he called students and other young people to rally on the main square of Kiev in support of a European choice for Ukraine. That square is called the Maidan, which by the way is an Arab word. During the first few days of the protests the students called it the Euromaidan. Russian propaganda called it, predictably enough, the Gayeuromaidan.

This part is of course hilarious. I hope it's meant in parody. As if a lonely courageous guy had started a super cool revolution by himself on #Twitter !!!1!1!! Seriously.

Snowstalker, I agree with you on the fundamentals. But you could word things better.

Of course, it's not a revolution if it's not the working people's revolution. Things will be awful when any government of pro-EU oligarchs start to implement EU austerity at its finest and the people is wholly disappointed and doesn't know what to do next.

But you have to at least acknowledge that the pro-Russia side is indeed worst in its actions than the pro-EU one. That doesn't mean that either of them is good for on the long-term for the working class though.

The new government is almost guaranteed to become unpopular. Just like Yushchenko did. When that happens though, at least they won't send snipers to shoot the protesters.

The next next election will result in a left-wing candidate coming to power. Hopefully the voters aren't stupid enough to make it Yanukovych again.

1. I doubt that the new government would be above violence.
2. Yanukovych is not remotely left-wing, nor is there a coherent or organized left in Ukraine.

1. What are you basing this belief on? Wishful thinking mostly.
2. Well, not to your standards, no. A candidate campaigning against austerity (regardless of how sincere) will win though.

The FN in France and the BNP in Britain are nominally anti-austerity too. Does that make them leftists?

But does that make them, as I assume you might term them, neoliberal tools of the global elite? Not particularly.

[politicus]

Seriously. This was an interesting thread on a serious topic. The mods ban Opebo but allow this sh**t? Ridiculous.

There would be no sh**t if people stopped taking the bait. Don't feed the Snowtroll guys, its not that hard.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Seriously. This was an interesting thread on a serious topic. The mods ban Opebo but allow this sh**t? Ridiculous.

At least I don't support PETA?

[Famous Mortimer]

Seriously. This was an interesting thread on a serious topic. The mods ban Opebo but allow this sh**t? Ridiculous.

There would be no sh**t if people stopped taking the bait. Don't feed the Snowtroll guys, its not that hard.

Sorry. I couldn't help myself, like I said, it was such a glaring double standard I had to point it out. Plus my Facebook feed is packed with lots of otherwise semi-rational leftists condemning the "Nazi coup." These are people I know in real life who definitely aren't trolls, just grossly misinformed. There's even people citing the American ambassadors tapped phone call as evidence American engendered the coup and it's like seriously, did you even listen to it? It pretty much proves the exactly opposite, that America wanted Yanukovych to stay in power for stability's shape. In fact, she even went all Moderate Hero and condemned Klitschko for no good reason.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I remember a lecture by Otto von Habsburg, who told Putin was quite notorius during his time as KGB officer in Saxony. That was around 2002.

Did he elaborate, or stopped here?

I must say I always wanted to know more on Putin's professional record there.

[Zanas]

The reading of RT's website (formerly Russia Today) is very interesting in these times. That is to say if you have the judgment to read between the lines, which not all of us seem to have...

[afleitch]

Topic name changed.

[Middle-aged Europe]

John Kerry to be in Kiev on Tuesday.

Good move as far as symbolism goes.

[Famous Mortimer]

The reading of RT's website (formerly Russia Today) is very interesting in these times. That is to say if you have the judgment to read between the lines, which not all of us seem to have...

What? Just that it's pro-Russian or is there something more? Too lazy to read a bunch of articles. Also, there doesn't even seem to be that many...maybe that's what you meant.

[afleitch]

UK's William Hague heading there too.

[RogueBeaver]

Merkel has apparently convinced Putin to allow an OSCE "fact-finding" mission to Crimea.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Re: reactionary politics and bigotry...

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/ukraine-genuine-revolution-tackle-corruption

[Zanas]

The reading of RT's website (formerly Russia Today) is very interesting in these times. That is to say if you have the judgment to read between the lines, which not all of us seem to have...

What? Just that it's pro-Russian or is there something more? Too lazy to read a bunch of articles. Also, there doesn't even seem to be that many...maybe that's what you meant.

You know, it's a little bit more complicated than that. It always is... There are quite a number of articles actually, and what they tell is a good indication of where the Russian propaganda wants to go. If you read RT, you could predict what Snowstalkers will be saying tomorrow, and cut them before.

If you have a little understanding of geopolitics, and a bit of judgment, reading RT is quite valuable because you're gonna be able to tell when they are exaggerating something, plain just lying, or telling the truth. Because they obviously tell the truth at times, they just know how much bullsh**t they can pump in, and how to present things to tell their story. They're quite good actually.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Russia Today is obviously silly propaganda, but then again so is most of what you get in America.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Russia Today is obviously silly propaganda, but then again so is most of what you get in America.

Which is why we need you, of course, to tell us The Truth.

[NewYorkExpress]

The U.S Men's Soccer team is playing the Ukraine on Wednsday... With the Ukraine as the "Home Team".... The game is being played in Cyprus(?) a situation that may not have been the case before this crisis.

[Deus Naturae]

Kerry will travel to Ukraine on Tuesday.