Hungary prepares to end legal recognition of trans people (user search)
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  Hungary prepares to end legal recognition of trans people (search mode)
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Author Topic: Hungary prepares to end legal recognition of trans people  (Read 2637 times)
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« on: May 21, 2020, 07:51:56 PM »

Kicking Hungary out of the EU would be a foolish decision and would most certainly do nothing to improve the situation. There has got to be a better way of pressuring Orban.
Even assuming that there was no way to pressure Orban, kicking Hungary out of the EU would be stupid regardless. Better to do nothing and conserve your strength than to pick a stand on a place and in circumstances guaranteed to backfire.
Let us not fetishize the act of taking action and instead look at things analytically - maximizing our ability to get our goals through and if necessary preserve a status quo that is favorable.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 05:59:36 AM »

Hungary should not only be kicked, but threatened sanctions until democratic norms and a free, diversified locally-owned press is a reality in the nation.
Fidesz says thank you for making their hold on power be even more entrenched than before.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 07:54:40 AM »
« Edited: May 22, 2020, 08:00:35 AM by Southern Archivist Punxsutawney Phil »

So what is your suggestion for making it less entrenched?
I dunno, but it is better to do nothing and lose nothing than do something and have a clear net loss both in the short-term and the long-term.
Insisting on action even when it's not a good idea is the kind of thinking that unsuccessful political movements are likelier to make.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 01:38:19 PM »
« Edited: May 22, 2020, 01:44:36 PM by Southern Archivist Punxsutawney Phil »

Hungary should not only be kicked, but threatened sanctions until democratic norms and a free, diversified locally-owned press is a reality in the nation.
Fidesz says thank you for making their hold on power be even more entrenched than before.

So? Would it be better to ignore it and pray they won't go even further, or hope they'll just see the error of their ways and change?

How about going even further, like tossing aside these stupid democratic and human right values? Hey, why not admit Belarus to the EU right now, if authoritarianism is no longer a problem?
If acting only further hurts the cause of liberalism and democracy still further is it really worth it? You don't take action for the sake of doing action you do action for the sake of getting more of your goals done. I remain unconvinced that severely punishing Orban would help in either the short-term or, to an even greater extent, the long-term.
Remember what happened when Austria got sanctioned from the EU for seven months in 1999? What good did that ever do?
Was it worth causing a crash of and permanently reducing the prevalence of pro-EU attitudes in Austria so that you can say a symbolic stand was made against having the far-right in government? I guess - if you don't care about effectively fighting for your goals.
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