Georgia grand jury investigating Trump returns indictments

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Kemp isn't pardoning Trump if his own LT Gov testified against him he said it's strength to concede defeat the only reason why Trump cant say concede because he was never a politician and lost before

You only can pardon anyways except the Nixon example unless the Defense has been convicted there is no Conviction yet they are gonna let the criminal process play out

You're right, Kemp isn't pardoning Trump.  But the reason is simple: in Georgia, the governor has no power to pardon.  It was taken away in a state constitutional amendment in 1943 following the indictment of Gov. E. D. Rivers for selling pardons, among other corruption charges.

How hard is it to add a constitutional amendment in Georgia?

Quite. It requires a 2/3 majority in both houses to pass and then being passed by the voters. So obviously even the first isn't possible as the Republicans don't have that majority.

[Yoda]

Why would an innocent man need a pardon in the first place? Tis a mystery....

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Why would an innocent man need a pardon in the first place? Tis a mystery....

Simple. The courts can and do error, and if Trump does get convicted, oh no, it can't be because of the evidence or anything else, it's because Biden and Co schemed to lock him up. So a pardon is necessary to head off this risk. So the thinking goes.
It's not so mysterious. Imagine judicial malfeasance possibly playing out in the courtroom of a  Trumpist judge in West Texas with a case against, say, Hillary Clinton, in a world where Trump won again. But the governor of Texas, elected in 2022, was a Democrat. Would you support a pardon?

[Yoda]

Why would an innocent man need a pardon in the first place? Tis a mystery....

Simple. The courts can and do error, and if Trump does get convicted, oh no, it can't be because of the evidence or anything else, it's because Biden and Co schemed to lock him up. So a pardon is necessary to head off this risk. So the thinking goes.
It's not so mysterious. Imagine judicial malfeasance possibly playing out in the courtroom of a  Trumpist judge in West Texas with a case against, say, Hillary Clinton, in a world where Trump won again. But the governor of Texas, elected in 2022, was a Democrat. Would you support a pardon?

I get you're trying to play devil's advocate, but think of all the things that would have to happen for this scenario to come to be that would not happen. Hillary Clinton would have to commit a crime (a real crime, not some republican nonsense) somewhere in West  Texas. A grand jury would have to look at this evidence and conclude it's reasonable to indict her, and then a unanimous jury would have to convict. None of this is remotely likely for the simple reason that Hillary Clinton is not a criminal, there's no conceivable reason she'd want or need to do anything illegal anywhere let alone West Texas, and she doesn't make a habit of recording herself admitting to criminal schemes.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Why would an innocent man need a pardon in the first place? Tis a mystery....

Simple. The courts can and do error, and if Trump does get convicted, oh no, it can't be because of the evidence or anything else, it's because Biden and Co schemed to lock him up. So a pardon is necessary to head off this risk. So the thinking goes.
It's not so mysterious. Imagine judicial malfeasance possibly playing out in the courtroom of a  Trumpist judge in West Texas with a case against, say, Hillary Clinton, in a world where Trump won again. But the governor of Texas, elected in 2022, was a Democrat. Would you support a pardon?

I get you're trying to play devil's advocate, but think of all the things that would have to happen for this scenario to come to be that would not happen. Hillary Clinton would have to commit a crime (a real crime, not some republican nonsense) somewhere in West  Texas. A grand jury would have to look at this evidence and conclude it's reasonable to indict her, and then a unanimous jury would have to convict. None of this is remotely likely for the simple reason that Hillary Clinton is not a criminal, there's no conceivable reason she'd want or need to do anything illegal anywhere let alone West Texas, and she doesn't make a habit of recording herself admitting to criminal schemes.

I agree on the substance of facts with you here. I was just trying to put the "we must pardon Trump!" frame of view in relatable terms. (and relatable does not mean correct)

[President Johnson]

Why would an innocent man need a pardon in the first place? Tis a mystery....

This is like asking why Trump wasn't able to stop the great election rigging in the history of the world under his watch, while he was the sitting president. His die-hard cultists apparently struggle to answer these common-sense questions.

[ProudModerate2]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1691915423443501246

These people will need 24/7 protection from lunatic Trump supporters trying to kill or intimidate them.

... on another message board, where the QAnon conspiracy theory initially emerged, a user seemed to threaten to “follow these people home and photograph their faces.”

One user wrote that the grand jurors’ names was a “hit list” to which another user responded, “Based. Godspeed anons, you have all the long range rifles in the world,”

... another wrote that they were “about ready to go Turner Diaries on these treasonous n***** s” (referring to a violent white nationalist book)

... another user ominously wrote that the jurors were “committing election interference” and so they “should indeed be careful.”

https://www.mediamatters.org/maga-trolls/far-right-message-boards-target-georgia-trump-indictment-grand-jurors-after-their-names

All disgusting.
These people are grand jurors, just doing their jobs. Their duties take place all the time, by many citizens, across our nation.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1692137489790578800?t=wsXqMzgjTihOGYJ_7zTK5g&...

[GeorgiaModerate]

I suspect Trump's lawyers would duct tape him to a chair if necessary to stop him from doing that press conference.

[emailking]

Rudy Giuliani made desperate appeal to Trump to pay his legal bills in Mar-a-Lago meeting

With his attorney in tow, Rudy Giuliani traveled to Mar-a-Lago in recent months on a mission to make a personal and desperate appeal to former President Donald Trump to pay his legal bills. By going in person, a source familiar with the matter told CNN, Giuliani and his lawyer Robert Costello believed they could explain face-to-face why Trump needed to assist his former attorney with his ballooning legal bills.

Giuliani and Costello traveled to Florida in late April where they had two meetings with Trump to discuss Giuliani’s seven-figure legal fees, making several pitches about how paying Giuliani’s bills was ultimately in Trump’s best interest.

But the former president, who is notoriously strict about dipping into his own coffers, didn’t seem very interested. After Costello made his pitch, Trump verbally agreed to help with some of Giuliani’s legal bills without committing to any specific amount or timeline.

Trump also agreed to stop by two fundraisers for Giuliani, a separate source said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/giuliani-trump-legal-bills/index.html

[President Johnson]

Rudy Giuliani made desperate appeal to Trump to pay his legal bills in Mar-a-Lago meeting

With his attorney in tow, Rudy Giuliani traveled to Mar-a-Lago in recent months on a mission to make a personal and desperate appeal to former President Donald Trump to pay his legal bills. By going in person, a source familiar with the matter told CNN, Giuliani and his lawyer Robert Costello believed they could explain face-to-face why Trump needed to assist his former attorney with his ballooning legal bills.

Giuliani and Costello traveled to Florida in late April where they had two meetings with Trump to discuss Giuliani’s seven-figure legal fees, making several pitches about how paying Giuliani’s bills was ultimately in Trump’s best interest.

But the former president, who is notoriously strict about dipping into his own coffers, didn’t seem very interested. After Costello made his pitch, Trump verbally agreed to help with some of Giuliani’s legal bills without committing to any specific amount or timeline.

Trump also agreed to stop by two fundraisers for Giuliani, a separate source said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/giuliani-trump-legal-bills/index.html

What a cuck.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I suspect Trump's lawyers would duct tape him to a chair if necessary to stop him from doing that press conference.

...and the press conference is canceled.  What a surprise.

[emailking]

It wasn't necessary apparently.

Rather than releasing the Report on the Rigged & Stolen Georgia 2020 Presidential Election on Monday, my lawyers would prefer putting this, I believe, Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud & Irregularities in formal Legal Filings as we fight to dismiss this disgraceful Indictment by a publicity & campaign finance seeking D.A., who sadly presides over a record breaking Murder & Violent Crime area, Atlanta. Therefore, the News Conference is no longer necessary!

[Redban]

Bill Barr thinks Trump’s 2024 candidacy shouldn’t give him any sort of immunity or perks, and he believes Trump will be convicted … in the federal cases

  he pointedly isn’t a fan of the Georgia case:

[Barr] also criticized the most recent indictment against the former president out of Georgia – where Trump faces 13 felony counts related to his alleged efforts to overturn the state’s 2020 election results – as “too sweeping, much too broad” and “excessive.”

Barr argued that it is unlikely to be tried before the 2024 presidential election and that it makes it “look like people are piling on and being excessive to Trump and feeds the narrative that he’s being victimized.”

“I’m not happy with the Georgia case,” Barr said. “I don’t think it’s going to be trialable before the election. It’s just too sprawling.”

https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/bill-barr-says-federal-cases-against-trump-will-be-tried-before-election-and-chances-are-he-will-be-convicted/

[LBJer]

Bill Barr thinks Trump’s 2024 candidacy shouldn’t give him any sort of immunity or perks, and he believes Trump will be convicted … in the federal cases

  he pointedly isn’t a fan of the Georgia case:

[Barr] also criticized the most recent indictment against the former president out of Georgia – where Trump faces 13 felony counts related to his alleged efforts to overturn the state’s 2020 election results – as “too sweeping, much too broad” and “excessive.”

Barr argued that it is unlikely to be tried before the 2024 presidential election and that it makes it “look like people are piling on and being excessive to Trump and feeds the narrative that he’s being victimized.”

“I’m not happy with the Georgia case,” Barr said. “I don’t think it’s going to be trialable before the election. It’s just too sprawling.”

https://nypost.com/2023/08/17/bill-barr-says-federal-cases-against-trump-will-be-tried-before-election-and-chances-are-he-will-be-convicted/

In calling the Georgia case "excessive," Bill Barr conveniently doesn't mention that Trump's reaction to losing the 2020 election--trying to overthrow the government--was quite "excessive" itself!  You can't do something like that and then whine that other people's responses are too extreme--well, you obviously can but if you do you're guilty of chutzpah in the first degree. 

[Yoda]

Rudy Giuliani made desperate appeal to Trump to pay his legal bills in Mar-a-Lago meeting

With his attorney in tow, Rudy Giuliani traveled to Mar-a-Lago in recent months on a mission to make a personal and desperate appeal to former President Donald Trump to pay his legal bills. By going in person, a source familiar with the matter told CNN, Giuliani and his lawyer Robert Costello believed they could explain face-to-face why Trump needed to assist his former attorney with his ballooning legal bills.

Giuliani and Costello traveled to Florida in late April where they had two meetings with Trump to discuss Giuliani’s seven-figure legal fees, making several pitches about how paying Giuliani’s bills was ultimately in Trump’s best interest.

But the former president, who is notoriously strict about dipping into his own coffers, didn’t seem very interested. After Costello made his pitch, Trump verbally agreed to help with some of Giuliani’s legal bills without committing to any specific amount or timeline.

Trump also agreed to stop by two fundraisers for Giuliani, a separate source said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/giuliani-trump-legal-bills/index.html

I just...I don't understand how people so close to him never learn with trump. trump leaving his allies out to dry is more predictable than the sun rising.

[Ferguson97]

Rudy Giuliani made desperate appeal to Trump to pay his legal bills in Mar-a-Lago meeting

With his attorney in tow, Rudy Giuliani traveled to Mar-a-Lago in recent months on a mission to make a personal and desperate appeal to former President Donald Trump to pay his legal bills. By going in person, a source familiar with the matter told CNN, Giuliani and his lawyer Robert Costello believed they could explain face-to-face why Trump needed to assist his former attorney with his ballooning legal bills.

Giuliani and Costello traveled to Florida in late April where they had two meetings with Trump to discuss Giuliani’s seven-figure legal fees, making several pitches about how paying Giuliani’s bills was ultimately in Trump’s best interest.

But the former president, who is notoriously strict about dipping into his own coffers, didn’t seem very interested. After Costello made his pitch, Trump verbally agreed to help with some of Giuliani’s legal bills without committing to any specific amount or timeline.

Trump also agreed to stop by two fundraisers for Giuliani, a separate source said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/politics/giuliani-trump-legal-bills/index.html

I just...I don't understand how people so close to him never learn with trump. trump leaving his allies out to dry is more predictable than the sun rising.

It's like people who cheat with someone, they never think they'll be cheated on.

[emailking]

Trump expected to surrender to Fulton County jail on Thursday or Friday next week

Former President Donald Trump is expected to surrender himself to the Fulton County jail at the end of next week – on Thursday or Friday, a senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the surrender told CNN.

Trump and 18 co-defendants were charged on Monday in connection with a plot to subvert the 2020 election results in Georgia. After the 41-count indictment was unsealed, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis set an August 25 deadline for their surrender.

Negotiations between Trump’s lawyers and Willis’ prosecutors are expected to continue into next week, ahead of the surrender deadline. The exact timing of Trump’s surrender remains unclear.

Trump’s expected surrender in Georgia comes the same week as the first Republican presidential debate of the 2024 election cycle. The former president, however, is planning to skip the event and instead sit for an interview with former Fox News Host Tucker Carlson, multiple sources familiar with his plans told CNN on Friday – though he could change his mind.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/18/politics/when-trump-surrender-fulton-county-jail/index.html

[emailking]

Trump this morning V

I easily won the Great State of Georgia in 2016, did a fantastic job, as President, for Georgia and the entire USA, received 10 Million more votes than I got, nationwide, in 2016, got by far the most votes in history for a sitting President, but shockingly,  “LOST” Georgia. All this despite winning nearby Alabama and South Carolina in Record Setting Landslides. Why did Georgia officials agree to, and sign, the one sided Consent Decree? Does anybody really believe I lost Georgia? I DON’T!

Actually, yes I do 🙋

lol

[Progressive Pessimist]

Trump this morning V

I easily won the Great State of Georgia in 2016, did a fantastic job, as President, for Georgia and the entire USA, received 10 Million more votes than I got, nationwide, in 2016, got by far the most votes in history for a sitting President, but shockingly,  “LOST” Georgia. All this despite winning nearby Alabama and South Carolina in Record Setting Landslides. Why did Georgia officials agree to, and sign, the one sided Consent Decree? Does anybody really believe I lost Georgia? I DON’T!

Actually, yes I do 🙋

lol

Yeah, because that's how elections work!

By that logic Biden should have won Utah because he won Colorado by a record margin. And even then, Alabama and South Carolina still lightly swung to Biden in 2020.

Why the f*** am I wasting my time writing this...?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump this morning V

I easily won the Great State of Georgia in 2016, did a fantastic job, as President, for Georgia and the entire USA, received 10 Million more votes than I got, nationwide, in 2016, got by far the most votes in history for a sitting President, but shockingly,  “LOST” Georgia. All this despite winning nearby Alabama and South Carolina in Record Setting Landslides. Why did Georgia officials agree to, and sign, the one sided Consent Decree? Does anybody really believe I lost Georgia? I DON’T!

Actually, yes I do 🙋

lol

Yeah, because that's how elections work!

By that logic Biden should have won Utah because he won Colorado by a record margin. And even then, Alabama and South Carolina still lightly swung to Biden in 2020.

Why the f*** am I wasting my time writing this...?

You writing a response because a large part of Trump's power comes from his ability to spew absolute bullsh**t and have the media and his peers absolutely refuse to call him on it.

99% of what comes out of Trump's mouth can be very accurately reported as "Trump said some more self-serving lies" (with the remaining 1% being threats and other encouragement of crimes). Yet from the the GOP hardliners to the mass media to Democratic politicians to individual voters, very few people are willing to be so blunt about it. Instead everyone pretends there's some greater meaning there. Donald is at his weakest when people ignore his words and judge him by his actions.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

“Georgia indicts Republican former President for voter tampering” reads very differently than it would 150 years ago.

[LBJer]

Why would an innocent man need a pardon in the first place? Tis a mystery....

Besides the already alluded to possibility of an innocent person being convicted, there's also the situation where someone is legally guilty but morally innocent (for example, someone convicted of murder whose "murder" was putting a loved one out of their misery at the loved one's request because they were too weak to do it themself).  Someone in this situation could well ask for a pardon on the grounds that they simply don't deserve to be in prison.

Of course, neither of these apply to Trump.

[Redban]

Looks like RUDY G is gonna walk from the charges

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giuliani-claims-scientific-evidence-151225444.html

Rudy Giuliani claims he has new “scientific evidence” of fraud to prove his innocence

Former Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani claimed on Sunday that he has "scientific evidence" to support his debunked claims about election fraud in Georgia. A caller to Giuliani's WABC radio show asked the former New York City mayor how he plans to defend himself against racketeering and other charges handed up by a Fulton County grand jury last week in a segment flagged by Raw Story.

"The first thing is, I don't think I'm giving anything away, I'm just going to tell you my strategy. I'm going to follow Mark Meadows and file as soon as I do the arraignment, I'm going to file a motion for removal to federal court, which I would say almost virtually will be granted," Giuliani claimed, even though Meadows' motion is based on the fact that he was a federal official and Giuliani had no formal government role. Legal experts have expressed skepticism that Meadows, much less Giuliani, will be able to remove the case to federal court. Giuliani then vowed to prove the baseless fraud claims. "There are things we didn't present then [in 2020] because over the next couple of years, a lot of people did a lot of work and have been able to produce more witnesses and what I would call scientific evidence that is very persuasive," he said.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Looks like RUDY G is gonna walk from the charges

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rudy-giuliani-claims-scientific-evidence-151225444.html

Rudy Giuliani claims he has new “scientific evidence” of fraud to prove his innocence

Former Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani claimed on Sunday that he has "scientific evidence" to support his debunked claims about election fraud in Georgia. A caller to Giuliani's WABC radio show asked the former New York City mayor how he plans to defend himself against racketeering and other charges handed up by a Fulton County grand jury last week in a segment flagged by Raw Story.

"The first thing is, I don't think I'm giving anything away, I'm just going to tell you my strategy. I'm going to follow Mark Meadows and file as soon as I do the arraignment, I'm going to file a motion for removal to federal court, which I would say almost virtually will be granted," Giuliani claimed, even though Meadows' motion is based on the fact that he was a federal official and Giuliani had no formal government role. Legal experts have expressed skepticism that Meadows, much less Giuliani, will be able to remove the case to federal court. Giuliani then vowed to prove the baseless fraud claims. "There are things we didn't present then [in 2020] because over the next couple of years, a lot of people did a lot of work and have been able to produce more witnesses and what I would call scientific evidence that is very persuasive," he said.

ROFLMAO