Does this mentality piss you off?

[Keystone Phil]

The "Hate Religion" mentality that is popularized by our forum's great intellectuals.

It certainly pisses me off but I'm just a member of the simple folk, after all.

[Keystone Phil]

I think you might be "seeing" something that is not there.

Yes, they do tend to say that when I say that I believe in God.

[Keystone Phil]

Who hates religion? I think if there is any "hate", it might be directed towards creationists who force their views upon the populace and other such intolerant people.

I must say that this idea that creationists try to force their views on others is overstated. I'm not a creationist but I certainly feel for them. The second you mention that you don't subscribe to evolution you are totally ripped to shreds. Now that's tolerance!

[Keystone Phil]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The anger and superiority comes even when the topic of teaching it in schools isn't part of the discussion.

[Keystone Phil]

The anger comes I think at the attempts to fob off creationism as science in secondary schools. It seems just so "luddite."

The anger and superiority comes even when the topic of teaching it in schools isn't part of the discussion.

The thing that pisses me off about creationists is that there is proof out there that evolution works and they still choose to ignore it. The funniest thing is that evolution does not prove that god exists or not but rather raises more questions. Instead of going from there, the creationists choose to dig their head in the sand and deny facts. But this ideology does not make me angry but rather just befuddles me. I do get angry if you try to teach creationism or "intelligent design" in classrooms and try to pass it off as science.

Again, I agree with you but I think that there are plenty of people out there that aren't trying to "pass it off as science."

I personally believe in evolution but evolution that God had a role in. Even that view will get an occassional eye roll.

[Keystone Phil]

Out of curiosity, can you give an example of religious hatefulness from a "great intellectual"?  Moreover, a popularized, widespread example?  This isn't a loaded question; if it seems like one, that might make you wonder.

P.S. Opebo does not count. 

You pass off your comments as intellectual criticism.

[Keystone Phil]

You pass off your comments as intellectual criticism.

I intellectually criticize Christianity.  Yeah.  I intellectually criticize individual agnostics, but not agnosticism as a whole, because it lacks dogma.  That does tend to make agnosticism sort of difficult to criticize beyond nit-picks.  I intellectually criticize sorts of atheism, although honestly I think my disagreements with most atheists usually relate to burden-of-proof.

I don't get your point though.  I don't criticize only things I hate.  I don't hate Christianity; I don't even think it's bad on the whole.  So, what are you talking about?

Alcon, after reading countless comments of your's regarding Christianity, you're kidding yourself if you think that you don't have a problem with Christianity.

[Keystone Phil]

Alcon, after reading countless comments of your's regarding Christianity, you're kidding yourself if you think that you don't have a problem with Christianity.

You've effectively decided that non-religiousness is:

1. Contrary to universal goodness.
2. Against the perpetuation of the Catholic Church, the one true Church.
3. Generally devoid of several moral values that you hold dear.

I've never said that or led anyone to serious believe that. My problem is that people like yourself attack what I believe in such an arrogant, condescending manner.

[Keystone Phil]

Side note:  Sometimes I get frustrated with religion.  Right now, I am in particular frustrated with Catholicism over a specific issue affecting a friend.  I try not to bring that into the conversation, but sometimes I might let that slip.  It's not out of hatred of Catholicism; it's just out of fear for my friend.  I'm human too.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you made this clear to me in another discussion. I think it was about gay marriage.

[Keystone Phil]

Actually, I think I made that clear when I was explaining that gay rights is the only issue where I think Christianity is doing mostly harm.

That's what I'm saying. That's where your problem lies with the Church.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not saying that that's why you hate Christianity but I do think that you're off base in thinking that my faith does harm to people on gay rights. I have my own disagreements with my Church on gay civil unions and such but I don't think my Church aims to harm. I know plenty of instances when those who are gay were loved and helped just as much as anyone else by Church members/officials. So, with all due respect, I don't need to hear from someone who is simply a Church skeptic that my religion mostly does harm.

[Keystone Phil]

That's what I'm saying. That's where your problem lies with the Church.

I'm not saying that that's why you hate Christianity but I do think that you're off base in thinking that my faith does harm to people on gay rights. I have my own disagreements with my Church on gay civil unions and such but I don't think my Church aims to harm. I know plenty of instances when those who are gay were loved and helped just as much as anyone else by Church members/officials. So, with all due respect, I don't need to hear from someone who is simply a Church skeptic that my religion mostly does harm.

First, I still don't see how you're turning "have a problem with the Church's position on an issue" into "hate the Church."

Again, this isn't about your problem with a Church position. It's about your constant arrogant criticism (see the thread related to this one).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

On gay related issues, you said that my Church does "mostly harm."

[Keystone Phil]

I'm with Alcon on this - I think you're imagining a lot of this perceived hatred of religion. Yeah, there are some who do but I don't think most of the secular folks here go so far as to hate it.

And there's contestant number two finally chiming in.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm with Alcon on this - I think you're imagining a lot of this perceived hatred of religion. Yeah, there are some who do but I don't think most of the secular folks here go so far as to hate it.

And there's contestant number two finally chiming in.

Right.

If you're not going to respond to my offer for examples to correct behavior, and just play victim, that's your choice.  But I'm not going to spend more time defending myself if you're not willing to make the effort.

You papist bastard.

It's been your attitude in any religion thread really.

[Keystone Phil]

It's been your attitude in any religion thread really.

And you think there's no chance that you're mistaking levity for derision?  You're sure?  Even though I've already outlined my opinion of your religion here, and it doesn't really sound like something I'd have hatred for, you're sure I do anyway?

You're right. I'm wrong because I'm saying one thing but you said something else.

[Keystone Phil]

Here's what I think you are, Alcon, in a short, simplified description: You're a good guy who has a problem with religion (namely with Christianity/Catholicism). You  constantly criticize with your usually unnecessary showing off of your extensive vocabulary and, therefore, "win" an argument.

So bravo to you.

[Keystone Phil]

I think you might be "seeing" something that is not there. Just a thought.

...or maybe he's trying to be a hero by framing the rest of us as zeros. Narisistic much?

LOL

I'm narcissistic? I don't even see how I'm "framing" others as "zeros" so...uh...

[Keystone Phil]

How else do you describe trying to show your superiority through the inferiority of others?

I'm sorry but how am I suggesting the inferiority of others? I'm saying that the religion haters are doing that with their often condescending commentary.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm sorry but how am I suggesting the inferiority of others? I'm saying that the religion haters are doing that with their often condescending commentary.

I'm sorry about these Religion Haters.  I look forward to striking them down when they pop up, if they engage in actual debate.  While I haven't seen them yet much, I will remain vigilant.  Hopefully, by working together, we can get rid of the bastards.

You have to understand, Alcon. Us dumb folk like to fight for our Lord. We don't have much else going our way. It's almost as if we cling to this God of our's.

[Keystone Phil]

In all seriousness, I've never seen you actually "fight" in a religious discussion (or discuss, even) not relating to how victimized you're being.  You seem to be doing a lot more sulking for the Lord than fighting.

I haven't had to defend my beliefs before? I simply sulk? I'm pretty sure I went at it with you on a number of things regarding my Church but whatever you say. 

[Keystone Phil]

I haven't had to defend my beliefs before? I simply sulk? I'm pretty sure I went at it with you on a number of things regarding my Church but whatever you say. 

Have we had a discussion about that before, or a fight even?  I'll take your word for it.  Maybe a passing message or two, but I don't remember anything sustained.

We didn't debate gay marriage and the Catholic Church? I'm pretty sure you haven't forgotten that one...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't care what your beliefs are. Contrary to popular belief, I don't have a problem with non believers or people that believe something else.

I've only "demonized" you because you act like a know it all and have a very condescending take on religion.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I love how I suggest that I am the one made to feel beneath others here yet it is turned into me acting superior.

[Keystone Phil]

  You'd prefer they be Christian, I assume, because you think Christianity is a righteous life and you like seeing that thrive.  Cool.

I don't prefer that they be anything other than what they are. I like people that are different than me, Alcon. Now you're trying to be funny, twisting what I truly believe to make your point.

[Keystone Phil]

I don't prefer that they be anything other than what they are. I like people that are different than me, Alcon. Now you're trying to be funny, twisting what I truly believe to make your point.

You don't wish your system of morality were more accepted, and resent when immoral things are done?  I don't object to belief, but sometimes immorality I see defended by belief.  Not to sound, um, preachy, but again morality is kind of the ultimate ends to some of us secularists.  I don't hate the immorality, but I certainly don't like it or want to be totally passive to it.

I don't think that's an entirely irrational, or even condescending, attitude.  Do you?

I didn't say that. Just because one isn't a Christian doesn't mean he or she acts immorally. Of course I'd rather immoral things be avoided but that doesn't mean someone has to be a Christian.