Associated Press: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

[Vosem]

It seems a certain fifteen year old has been watching Air Force One a little too much.

I'd honestly never even heard of that movie until you mentioned it and looked it up on Wikipedia. My parents are immigrants, and sometimes it shows. Sounds like a good movie.

That said, it's rather common sense that if you are actually being threatened on a plane by someone with a gun, you'd probably prefer that the flight attendant or the pilot can do something about it rather than being helpless.

So obviously we shouldn't let people have guns. In Colorado a crazy person went on a massacre, which wasn't, as I understand, linked to job performance.

The guy was a PhD candidate and as with all PhD candidates he was paid a stipend for his work.  He got poor performance reviews and failed an oral exam.  He was dismissed just prior to going on his rampage.

If someone is performing poorly at their job giving them a gun is not a good idea.

Obviously if anyone performing poorly at their job is given a gun they will go on a murderous rampage. Clearly an indisputable fact.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

http://nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/going-postal-empire-state

Read.

[Insula Dei]

Yeah, Mark Ames has written a lot on workplace shootings in the US. Pretty much all of it makes for an interesting read.

[opebo]

So it turns out it was the police who shot everybody.

[Joe Republic]

You're a little late, opebo.

[opebo]

You're a little late, opebo.

Why did someone else mention that?

[opebo]

You're a little late, opebo.

Wow, now that I go back through the thread, I see that JJ did in fact mention this story, but you can understand why I missed it - this central fact (police incompetence) didn't generate any conversation or debate at all.

[Joe Republic]

Well, most of the thread was filled with Link and Vosem's inane tangent.  You should definitely read the article Gully posted further up this page though.  It's right up your proverbial alley.

[krazen1211]

This is the actual story:

Disgruntled man shoots ex-coworker; police shoot him, and nine bystanders.

Looks like an excellent argument against people going all vigilante justice on shooters. If a cop can't take him down without injuring others, what chance does some amateur have?

Plenty. This hero put a bullet in the shooter from 150+ yards.

http://www.brownwoodtx.com/news/local/article_851fd04a-db90-11e1-8237-0019bb2963f4.html

[Sbane]

This is the actual story:

Disgruntled man shoots ex-coworker; police shoot him, and nine bystanders.

Looks like an excellent argument against people going all vigilante justice on shooters. If a cop can't take him down without injuring others, what chance does some amateur have?

If an experienced shooter with a gun were in the crowd...

Obviously amateurs shouldn't just start shooting willy-nilly.

Wouldn't you say a cop is an expert? In these situations the chance of mistakes go way up, especially if you aren't trained to handle that pressure situation.

[Sbane]

This is the actual story:

Disgruntled man shoots ex-coworker; police shoot him, and nine bystanders.

Looks like an excellent argument against people going all vigilante justice on shooters. If a cop can't take him down without injuring others, what chance does some amateur have?

Plenty. This hero put a bullet in the shooter from 150+ yards.

http://www.brownwoodtx.com/news/local/article_851fd04a-db90-11e1-8237-0019bb2963f4.html

Great so this one guy is a good shooter. So?

[opebo]

Well, most of the thread was filled with Link and Vosem's inane tangent.  You should definitely read the article Gully posted further up this page though.  It's right up your proverbial alley.

Thanks, yes, just checked it out - excellent article.  Capitalism and the police to blame, the original shooter a mere sad victim of the system - I couldn't agree more.

[krazen1211]

This is the actual story:

Disgruntled man shoots ex-coworker; police shoot him, and nine bystanders.

Looks like an excellent argument against people going all vigilante justice on shooters. If a cop can't take him down without injuring others, what chance does some amateur have?

Plenty. This hero put a bullet in the shooter from 150+ yards.

http://www.brownwoodtx.com/news/local/article_851fd04a-db90-11e1-8237-0019bb2963f4.html

Great so this one guy is a good shooter. So?

So, it's quite silly to think that these cops are experts while the people are not. It obviously depends on the individual.

Shrapnel wounds are certainly preferable to a Colorado style rampaging lunatic. Nobody is Jack Bauer.

[Link]

This is the actual story:

Disgruntled man shoots ex-coworker; police shoot him, and nine bystanders.

Looks like an excellent argument against people going all vigilante justice on shooters. If a cop can't take him down without injuring others, what chance does some amateur have?

Plenty. This hero put a bullet in the shooter from 150+ yards.

http://www.brownwoodtx.com/news/local/article_851fd04a-db90-11e1-8237-0019bb2963f4.html

Great so this one guy is a good shooter. So?

So, it's quite silly to think that these cops are experts while the people are not.

Lol.  Are you kidding?  Two entirely different situations.  A sparsely populated trailer park vs a crowded New York street?  Police distracting the shooter so the guy can line up a shot?  You did read the part where he initially missed and hit a tree?  That would be a wounded person in NYC.

[Vosem]

This is the actual story:

Disgruntled man shoots ex-coworker; police shoot him, and nine bystanders.

Looks like an excellent argument against people going all vigilante justice on shooters. If a cop can't take him down without injuring others, what chance does some amateur have?

Plenty. This hero put a bullet in the shooter from 150+ yards.

http://www.brownwoodtx.com/news/local/article_851fd04a-db90-11e1-8237-0019bb2963f4.html

Great so this one guy is a good shooter. So?

So, it's quite silly to think that these cops are experts while the people are not.

Lol.  Are you kidding?  Two entirely different situations.  A sparsely populated trailer park vs a crowded New York street?  Police distracting the shooter so the guy can line up a shot?  You did read the part where he initially missed and hit a tree?  That would be a wounded person in NYC.

We've already mentioned that, while, yes an experienced shooter in the crowd could have helped, an experienced shooter would also know when he would most likely not be able to hit the target. This scenario is particularly badly suited to the 'man with a gun' -- though even in NYC, if you are confronted at night, a gun could prove very useful.

Shooters firing at crowds are not particularly common, and armed men in the crowd may not make a difference (or they may, depending on circumstances) -- but certainly a gun would help in a more common event, like an attempted mugging or rape or animal attack. (These are the big three a gun would help you with, and they're all far more common than mass shootings, btw.)

I'm not going back on my previous position, just elaborating on a point I think you missed.