January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[pbrower2a]

Burglary of federal buildings is so obvious that it can serve as a default charge.

[pbrower2a]

Taking a rope into the Capitol suggests that one had some idea of using it. This is especially so if it is fashioned into a noose. It's certainly not going to be used as a lasso for controlling cattle!

[pbrower2a]

Unless they hurt someone or damaged property, probation sounds fine for the rest.

Attempted robbery is still robbery. A attempted insurrection is still a insurrection, just because you are too stupid to carry it out successfully. The intent of this man and the MAGA cult was to violently overthrow the government.

Michigan treats armed robbery as severely as attempted first-degree murder: 25 to life, with no chance of parole for 25 years. The money is the least of the problem. Armed robbery is relatively rare, but it often results in death (which makes it first-degree murder). I endorse this legal "confusion". Every armed robbery is a potential murder.

All of the offenses boil down at the least to burglary (going into a place in which one is unauthorized and for which one has no compelling excuse, such as escaping a violent crime or a severe storm). Others are possible. If one has tools suitable for an assault of any kind (this even includes zip-cuffs) then the legal system can assume the worst. Getting access to classified data contrary to law is a major offense even if one's actions are otherwise non-violent.     

We have two compelling and competing issues: first that the deeds just are not done in our history, but second that we have no precedent for judging them. The closest analogue for a failed insurrection is something that happened almost a century ago: the Beer-Hall Putsch in the Weimar Republic. Across a century and an ocean.

There's a big difference: Trump is probably within five years of dying, and the instigator of the Beer-Hall Putsch had plenty of time in which to get his act together for a second effort to overthrow German democracy. Add to this, Hitler was a far better writer than Trump is... not that I encourage anyone to read Mein Kampf except as a historical document or to analyze it for warnings of a sociopathic leader.  (I prefer Churchill, for obvious reasons).

[pbrower2a]

No one claimed politicians were gods, stop straw manning and answer the question.

How would you have liked Trump and the crowd to "pressure" Congress?

What I was hoping would happen:

(1) Trump marches to the Capitol building (even if Michael T Pence and the Secret Service don't whisk him to the Capitol, maybe Trump's too fat to make it there) at the head of the pack
(2) He stands on the steps of Capitol building and gives the best damn speech he has given. Speak about the terrorism neoliberal globalists have committed against this country. Speak hard truths about how corrupt not only the democrats are, but speak out against McConnell and his ilk.
(3) On the inside, Trump's allies will push forward with their evidence for each of the six states the Trump campaign targeted: MI, WI, PA, NV, GA, AZ. Note - I don't think there is any case that Trump won MI/WI/NV/AZ, so this just gets him to 268 (and that is a long shot too). However the debate would have gone deep into the night based on time allowances.
(4) Late at night, around 2 or 3 AM I believe (unless the session convened), all options are exhausted, Biden is certified, and Trump announces he has exhausted all avenues. At this point he lets the crowd know to keep fighting, and never to give up their fight against the corrupt establishment.
(5) Trump goes out as a warrior, instead of as a defeated coward. Doesn't need to run again, but at least he can argue that he and his voters did their best against questionable voter laws and foreign interference.

What I hoped would happen:

Donald Trump addresses the crowds, thanking them for the electoral support that brought him close to being re-elected. He tells them that people who still believe in Making America Great Again that they must bide their time and prepare for the next election so that they can win enough more votes to decide in favor of their dream instead of the "Biden-Pelosi-Schumer disaster". There will be hard times as their liberal ideas bring economic and diplomatic failure. We will be back, and America will be even more ready for us.

In the meantime, go home in peace. Work on campaigns for the House and Senate... and state and local elections. Make your opinions known in all the ways that you can. Warn people of the disaster that awaits and tell them what the cure is. That's an America with a patriotic tax system and in which people put country over some special interest.

I regret that I was not good enough in convincing enough people to vote for what is best for America. But we all know what is best, and many who voted foolishly will find out the hard way how right we all are.   

God bless America and God bless you. Much of the rest of America will just have to learn the hard way what we know well. MAGA!

...Instead many of Trump's angry followers stormed the Capitol, exposing their crass indifference to the basic decencies that make responsible government possible. Trump did nothing to dissuade them from that insane deed.

[pbrower2a]

History won't look fondly upon Michael T. Pence, that's for sure.

History is already looking poorly at the entire traitorous Trump regime, including his obsequious toady VP.

The only confirmed traitors in the Trump administration were Bolton, Mike T. Pence, Cohn and McMaster.

That’s what it all comes down to for you, doesn’t it, Low Info?  Who was a traitor to Trump?  The country is more concerned about who acted as a traitor to the nation.  The guy who stirred up his cult followers to overthrow the nation's government and illegitimately remain in power fits that definition pretty squarely.

Irony may have been intended.

[pbrower2a]

We need a "sore loser" Amendment to the Constitution that expels, and then disqualifies, any sitting President who calls for the nullification of electoral results  or the disruption of any process of determining the count of the Electoral College or the popular vote. Dispute is a prerogative, but nullification is not.

[pbrower2a]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1420056404476370949

The N-bomb was used almost as often as the F-bomb. That little surprises me. Both words  usually signify someone with little self-control.

[pbrower2a]

I'm glad US Capitol Police Sergeant Aquilino Gonell isn't walking a beat in the Bronx. 

Completely uncalled-for.

[pbrower2a]

Maybe this is totally out of line, but something I thought of while watching some clips on Twitter this morning...if he would have any interest (and even aligns this way), should Democrats try to recruit Michael Fanone to run for office? I mean, I'm not sure where he's from originally (if it's not DC, but the accent is difficult to pin down) but he would be a great face for the party and he seems to be genuinely motivated by the horror he went through.

I do believe he said he voted for Trump in 2016, so I'm not sure how aligned he is with the Democratic platform, I think he's more motivated by his own trauma than politics.

Trump betrayed him.

[pbrower2a]

Can you imagine if that shameless clown Jim Jordan was on the panel?

It is best for himself that he was not on that panel. There is simply no more potential to spin this case into something innocuous for Trump.

[pbrower2a]

So many of these officers expressed shocked at being targeted racially or that the "thin blue line" flag was flying as the mob beat them. I am shocked that they don't understand the racism that exists in this country, how can you work in law enforcement and not understand that a large part of Trump's base is racist or that the "thin blue line" movement only cares about defending police when the brutality is aimed at black people.

I doubt that the Capitol Police and other police on duty at the Capitol expected anything like this. This violent effort to nullify an election is something that happens in other countries -- not America.

The vast majority of people who visit the Capitol do so in respect and awe of Congress and take little prodding to avoid any slight deviation in protocol. Until January 6, this may have looked like the easiest police work around. Nobody is going to do a drug deal in the Capitol. Nobody is going to try to use it as a refuge in flight from prosecution for garden-variety crimes. Violence is a rarity.

Most of us know the limits in interactions with police. Racial, sexual, and religious slurs are out of the question. Cops typically find some other technicality for prosecution. Attacking a cop is a good way to endure serious injury or even death, and even if one survives one faces a long prison term for doing so.

We have yet to see the harshest sentences, which will include those for assaults upon police. .   

[pbrower2a]

Gaetz, Greene and Gohmert turned away from jail to visit Jan. 6 defendants

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/565562-gop-reps-gaetz-green-and-gohmert-turned-away-from-jail-to-visit-jan-6

Disgusting. What would you expect them to say -- "Keep up the good work"?

[pbrower2a]

Representative Scott Perry could be only the first of several. It's hard to imagine a more inconvenient time for this scandal to break for the GOP, less than three months before the general election.

Nobody says that law enforcement has any obligation to operate on a convenient schedule for an alleged offender.

The 'alternative electors' were not simply a sick joke. They were the objective, and they are connected to the Capitol Putsch. 

[pbrower2a]

https://twitter.com/rachelweinerwp/status/1557835591387152384?t=y6Ri1oEJNDDYJnzI...

Good thing this POS won't be a cop again.

Never say never.

If Trump wins again, this POS could be pardoned.

Never elect a politician who has shown a contempt for law. This exempts civil disobedience, which at least recognizes law beyond existing statute, as participating in the Underground Railroad or harboring Jews in Hitlerland would have demonstrated.  So does expressing truths that the regime finds appalling as threats to the blind obedience that that regime desires.

"Law and order" is a favored meme of right-wingers, especially when referring to people not like them or their supporters failing to do as such people want. This said, I interpret the words someone differently -- that one does not do nasty things to others especially in violation of the law,  and that one does not do things that harm the overall community. Trump says the first and violates the second.

Even if I had the idea that robbing a bank or molesting a child was something that I could get away with and would bring me some happiness, I would not do it. That is the first part. The second part is that I actively deprecate behavior such as gay-bashing that makes the world less safe. I used to tell "gay jokes", but that is over because such jokes contribute to hostility against LGBT people. 

[pbrower2a]

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1562593188916801537

I have nothing but respect for the United States Marine Corps. You know them. There is one reliable means of dealing with Marines on the battlefield.

Raise both arms, drop all weapons, and surrender. POW status is better than death.

Mess with the best, and die like the rest!

Thomas Webster desecrated a Marine Corps banner by using it as a weapon in the Capitol Putsch. 

[pbrower2a]

Assault police and expect big trouble.

[pbrower2a]

Here is Trump's reaction and hopefully he won't be able to say **** like this soon.

Biden Prosecutor, Deranged Jack Smith, has asked the Court to limit 45th President, and leading Republican Nominee (by more than 50 points, & beating Dems!) DONALD J. TRUMP’S, PUBLIC STATEMENTS. So, I’m campaigning for President against an incompetent person who has WEAPONIZED the DOJ & FBI to go after his Political Opponent, & I am not allowed to COMMENT? They Leak, Lie, & Sue, & they won’t allow me to SPEAK? How else would I explain that Jack Smith is DERANGED, or Crooked Joe is INCOMPETENT?

He crosses a line. I know the first amendment has quite wide bonds, but at one point it's got to stop. I'm sure a defendant wouldn't get away with this in Germany. And rightfully so.

Something else about Germany: it has an excellent educational system, and anyone who has the grades and equivalent of college board scores gets free college all the way to a professional school. Taxes are high and physicians' salaries are low by US standards, but there is no huge debt to pay.

This said, the strange political career of Donald Trump depeds upon the ignoramus vote. I'm not going to say that we need to keep stupid people from voting, but ust to avoid creating big problems it is best that our politicians appeal ro the best in our narional character. Nearly all solutions that make life better for us originate in smart people.
 

[pbrower2a]

https://twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1762160850167542118

Michigan has been slow to indict Trump. I'm guessing that the top state-level prosectors hae good cause to get him for this stuff.

They could be looking at skullduggery in 2016, which would be new and devastating.