January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[GeneralMacArthur]

Kind of a meh day, unless they can get a smoking gun text message where Trump was directly in contact with a leader of the Proud Boys or something, there's really nowhere to go in this vein.

Trump communicated with the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers and other right-wing militia groups through intermediaries like Roger Stone and Michael Flynn, and had regular conversations with the main media personalities influencing those groups, such as Alex Jones.  It was in this way that Trump was able to get his instructions to those groups, and find out what those groups needed from him.  This is how Trump was able to get the word out to those groups to organize and prepare for an attack on the Capitol, and this is why Trump knew full well that his tweet with instructions for Jan 6 would be received as a call-to-arms for those groups.  This is why Trump's speech on the ellipse was full of wink-wink usage of their language, and thinly-veiled calls for violence and insurrection.

But this is how Trump operates.  Like any good organized crime syndicate leader, he never actually communicates directly with his thugs, there's always intermediaries and layers so as to create plausible deniability and separation.  He never puts his nefarious commands into writing or any sort of permanent record.

And because of this, Republicans will always be able to defend Trump by acting like he was just some babe in the woods who had no idea what he was doing or what he was saying, who was being led by the nose by folks like Giuliani and Powell, and had no idea what was going to happen, and was then too shocked and confused to stop it.  That's their story and they're sticking with it.

[emailking]

The delayed hearing is now scheduled for Thursday night of next week.

[BG-NY]

Respect to GMac. He isn't delusional by any means.

[Inmate Trump]

Respect to GMac. He isn't delusional by any means.

Your current user name is “Mike Pence is Guilty of Treason.”

Can you please explain what Pence did that equals treason?

[emailking]

Someone on this forum was upset that he left the Capitol or didn't leave the Capitol or something like that. I don't know if that's what Mike Pence is Guilty of Treason's beef is though.

[BG-NY]

Someone on this forum was upset that he left the Capitol or didn't leave the Capitol or something like that. I don't know if that's what Mike Pence is Guilty of Treason's beef is though.

Given the clip of Trump attempting to demand the Secret Service take him to the Capitol, I blame Pence for making the call.

That is a direct violation of chain of command. Who else would've directed the Secret Service to take Trump back to the White House?

[emailking]

From the hearings, it sounded like they made that call on their own.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Someone on this forum was upset that he left the Capitol or didn't leave the Capitol or something like that. I don't know if that's what Mike Pence is Guilty of Treason's beef is though.

Given the clip of Trump attempting to demand the Secret Service take him to the Capitol, I blame Pence for making the call.

That is a direct violation of chain of command. Who else would've directed the Secret Service to take Trump back to the White House?

The Secret Service is under no obligation to carry out instructions that would aid and abet criminal activity - indeed they are obliged to ignore any such instructions. The president is not a dictator, and he does not have the authority to turn the Secret Service into a Praetorian Guard as part of a plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

This is not a difficult concept.

[BG-NY]

The Secret Service is under no obligation to carry out instructions that would aid and abet criminal activity - indeed they are obliged to ignore any such instructions. The president is not a dictator, and he does not have the authority to turn the Secret Service into a Praetorian Guard as part of a plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

This is not a difficult concept.

In this case, whisking Trump away to the White House caused chaos. If Trump was at the Capitol, no way people enter and trespass in the building.

So if Biden threatened to declare WW3 on Russia because of the conflict with Ukraine, would the Secret Service be justified in preventing him from taking action?

[GP270watch]

If you and your friends plan a robbery on a 7/11 and somebody ends up dead, you can all be charged with murder, even if it's one of your accomplices. How can you plan to overthrow the damn government, riot, and yet so many people are getting light charges or no charges.

Trump especially should be in prison.

[BG-NY]

If you and your friends plan a robbery on a 7/11 and somebody ends up dead, you can all be charged with murder, even if it's one of your accomplices. How can you plan to overthrow the damn government, riot, and yet so many people are getting light charges or no charges.

Trump especially should be in prison.

The only person who died on 1/6 was a Trump supporter. Her murderer is not yet behind bars, like George Floyd's is. Fortunately he can't run from his crimes forever, and I look forward to the next GOP administration investigating his actions.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

The Secret Service is under no obligation to carry out instructions that would aid and abet criminal activity - indeed they are obliged to ignore any such instructions. The president is not a dictator, and he does not have the authority to turn the Secret Service into a Praetorian Guard as part of a plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

This is not a difficult concept.

In this case, whisking Trump away to the White House caused chaos. If Trump was at the Capitol, no way people enter and trespass in the building.

So if Biden threatened to declare WW3 on Russia because of the conflict with Ukraine, would the Secret Service be justified in preventing him from taking action?

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

[emailking]

In this case, whisking Trump away to the White House caused chaos. If Trump was at the Capitol, no way people enter and trespass in the building.

So if Biden threatened to declare WW3 on Russia because of the conflict with Ukraine, would the Secret Service be justified in preventing him from taking action?

The guy today said they left the Capitol when Trump tweeted that they should leave (hours later) and said if he tweeted that earlier they would have left then. So that's on Trump then for not telling them to leave immediately after the breach.

[BG-NY]

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

If he asked for the Nuclear football, he would be asking them to do something, no...?

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

If he asked for the Nuclear football, he would be asking them to do something, no...?

The nuclear football is carried by a military officer at all times, not the Secret Service.

FFS please know what the hell you are talking about before you make more of a fool of yourself.

[BG-NY]

The guy today said they left the Capitol when Trump tweeted that they should leave (hours later) and said if he tweeted that earlier they would have left then. So that's on Trump then for not telling them to leave immediately after the breach.

Leaving the Capitol is immaterial. Pence's treason had already taken place by that point.

[GP270watch]

If you and your friends plan a robbery on a 7/11 and somebody ends up dead, you can all be charged with murder, even if it's one of your accomplices. How can you plan to overthrow the damn government, riot, and yet so many people are getting light charges or no charges.

Trump especially should be in prison.

The only person who died on 1/6 was a Trump supporter. Her murderer is not yet behind bars, like George Floyd's is. Fortunately he can't run from his crimes forever, and I look forward to the next GOP administration investigating his actions.

 You missed the whole post. Read carefully.

[emailking]

The guy today said they left the Capitol when Trump tweeted that they should leave (hours later) and said if he tweeted that earlier they would have left then. So that's on Trump then for not telling them to leave immediately after the breach.

Leaving the Capitol is immaterial. Pence's treason had already taken place by that point.

That's just your supposition. It also doesn't make any sense because the VP is below the President in the chain of command so he cannot give an order than Trump cannot supersede

[BG-NY]

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

If he asked for the Nuclear football, he would be asking them to do something, no...?

The nuclear football is carried by a military officer at all times, not the Secret Service.

FFS please know what the hell you are talking about before you make more of a fool of yourself.

And...? The Secret Service intervened when the Biden-friendly CCP attempted to seize the device from Trump's entourage.

[BG-NY]

That's just your supposition. It also doesn't make any sense because the VP is below the President in the chain of command so he cannot give an order than Trump cannot supersede

So let me ask you this...

If Trump demanded the Secret Service take him to the Capitol, because the march would get out of control otherwise, and they said they were following orders from Pence *not* to take him to the Capitol, would you agree Pence is guilty of treason?

[emailking]

That's just your supposition. It also doesn't make any sense because the VP is below the President in the chain of command so he cannot give an order than Trump cannot supersede

So let me ask you this...

If Trump demanded the Secret Service take him to the Capitol, because the march would get out of control otherwise, and they said they were following orders from Pence *not* to take him to the Capitol, would you agree Pence is guilty of treason?

Unless you include a war in this hypothetical than nobody in the whole country can be guilty of Treason.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Biden wouldn't be ordering the Secret Service to do anything in that situation, so they wouldn't even be involved. But to go more to your overall point, yes, the military - those who would be receiving the orders - would have a duty to disobey the orders if those orders clearly violated the law.

If he asked for the Nuclear football, he would be asking them to do something, no...?

The nuclear football is carried by a military officer at all times, not the Secret Service.

FFS please know what the hell you are talking about before you make more of a fool of yourself.

And...? The Secret Service intervened when the Biden-friendly CCP attempted to seize the device from Trump's entourage.

You know what, f*** it, believe whatever nonsense you want to believe. If you can't understand on your own the simple fact that the president is not an absolute monarch over the executive branch then that is your problem to fix, not mine.

[emailking]

Yeah he's been pretty hard set on this for at least a year now if not longer. I just forgot the details.

[BG-NY]

You know what, f*** it, believe whatever nonsense you want to believe. If you can't understand on your own the simple fact that the president is not an absolute monarch over the executive branch then that is your problem to fix, not mine.

I'm saying the Vice President isn't a monarch. How are we in disagreement?

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

You know what, f*** it, believe whatever nonsense you want to believe. If you can't understand on your own the simple fact that the president is not an absolute monarch over the executive branch then that is your problem to fix, not mine.

I'm saying the Vice President isn't a monarch. How are we in disagreement?

Neither of them can give unlawful orders you turnip, and the orders Trump gave were unlawful. That is why they returned him to the White House. That and that alone, not any sort of instruction from Pence.