Is it time to end Atlasia?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The game is boring because it now sucks structurally. It has been bureaucratised and legislated out of meaning. There is also a big big flaw in the game that has been present from the early days and that we have never fixed, and that is that it is very easy to 'win' by signing up legions of inactive voters, something that has a debilitating effect on the strategic side of the game.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I'm not around in Atlasia as long as you are, so you obviously know what you're talking about, but let me ask this: would that be possible to have a continuing election game without at least some government simulation at the same time? I don't see how. Such a simulation, among other things, allows us to produce our unique issues. Otherwise how diffrent would Atlasia be from any election simulation game?

There's nothing wrong with a government aspect - elections are far more dramatic when they have consequences and drama is good in a game - the problem is when a) the government aspect dominates over everything else and when b) the government aspect is actually extremely boring.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The interest just isn't there. We have the same people playing this game, for the most part, that played it years ago. A lot of the active people here were around for the JCP/RPP days and before. Being new and breaking in is difficult.

To be fair, there are other reasons for "the interest just not being there", unrelated to frustration with the game itself. Some people lose interest with the forum in general, got more important things in RL. Also, the forum activity in general drops in between election seasons. So it's really hard to say how many left or became dormant because of frustration with the game. I myself left a couple of times for various reasons.

It's correct there's the "old guard" problem. I'm here since 2009, not as long as you, Al or the others, but considerably longer than a sizeable portion of our population and being around for six years gave me an advantage in the last election over two newbies. The encouraging thing is, however, that we're still getting active newbies.

The "old players v. new players" wouldn't dissapear with simple reset or even changing our system via ConCon. The game restarts, but the oldies would still have their contact, experiences and cliques. I honestly don't know if there's any way to fix this issue

There's nothing wrong with a government aspect - elections are far more dramatic when they have consequences and drama is good in a game - the problem is when a) the government aspect dominates over everything else and when b) the government aspect is actually extremely boring.

The government aspect has largely became a self-repeating cliche, that's true.

The game is boring because it now sucks structurally. It has been bureaucratised and legislated out of meaning. There is also a big big flaw in the game that has been present from the early days and that we have never fixed, and that is that it is very easy to 'win' by signing up legions of inactive voters, something that has a debilitating effect on the strategic side of the game.

True again. Especially on the regional level. I'm was guilty of that as well, back when I was registered in Midwest.

[Potus]

I'm sure SWE would be willing to back me up on this, but the inability of new players to get involved is greatly overstated. I joined in January of 2014 and I was quickly included by "old guard" figures Duke and Tmth. I won an election in the most populous region with the support of a huge segment of the old guard. Today, I still enjoy those relationships. Only a year and a half in. SWE has a similar story to tell.

[Lincoln Republican]

I have been playing this game, off and on, for years.

I have had my share of electoral success as well as electoral defeat.  Fortunately, my successes outnumber my defeats.

One problem I see as a source of frustration is party domination.  All you basically have to do is run under a certain party label and you are almost assured of winning and staying in office time after time.

Another source of frustration I see is the structure of recall.  All you need is a group of like minded individuals who for some reason don't like you, and organize a recall to remove you from office.  These witch hunts are annoying.

Another very annoying aspect of this game is that when a group of individuals get into power with enough of their own to control an assembly they will start passing vile and obscene legislation.  In the Northeast Assembly, I had to work very hard to overturn some of the most obscene and offensive legislation you will ever see in your lifetime.

No wonder many of the members of this board are losing interest.  I don't blame them in the least.

[DemPGH]

Lean yes. Could be that something that worked well 10 years ago, or 5 years ago, may have petered out by now?? Like, there's such a thing as roster change. The people who founded this game as is aren't around.

Either way, I mean, I hope people see that the status quo is unsustainable and untenable.

[Leinad]

I'm sure SWE would be willing to back me up on this, but the inability of new players to get involved is greatly overstated. I joined in January of 2014 and I was quickly included by "old guard" figures Duke and Tmth. I won an election in the most populous region with the support of a huge segment of the old guard. Today, I still enjoy those relationships. Only a year and a half in. SWE has a similar story to tell.

So do I. My welcome hasn't been universally warm (i.e. this is the internet, and some people act like jerks on the internet--I know, shocking, right?) but I don't really feel like there's an "old guard" marginalizing me or anything. In fact, some of the "old guard" "dinosaurs" that specifically come under attack, like Yankee and PiT, have been quite welcoming of me, and encouraged my decision to run. I think I'd have a similar welcome if I was left-leaning and joined Labor, TPP, or another party instead.

There doesn't seem to be much of a barrier for newer players. Another example: Classic Conservative isn't running for anything (at least not yet) but his AUCC is gaining traction, and his petition has a good bit of signatures, including the President, and by my count 4 Senators and 2 Governors.

One problem I see as a source of frustration is party domination.  All you basically have to do is run under a certain party label and you are almost assured of winning and staying in office time after time.

The only solution I can see for that is an increase in the number of people so that primaries and/or alternate candidates in the general would be possible. I can't see another solution.

Lean yes. Could be that something that worked well 10 years ago, or 5 years ago, may have petered out by now?? Like, there's such a thing as roster change. The people who founded this game as is aren't around.

Either way, I mean, I hope people see that the status quo is unsustainable and untenable.

No, the status quo isn't working, but that's no reason to dissolve Atlasia. We need to change the status quo.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm sure SWE would be willing to back me up on this, but the inability of new players to get involved is greatly overstated. I joined in January of 2014 and I was quickly included by "old guard" figures Duke and Tmth. I won an election in the most populous region with the support of a huge segment of the old guard. Today, I still enjoy those relationships. Only a year and a half in. SWE has a similar story to tell.

Tmth was always looking to find new players and boost them up and support them. Cris didn't get active until 2014 but once he did, he advanced in the Midwest and then became Senator rather quickly. DC al Fine had only been here a couple of months when he was selected to succeed Spiral in the Senate. Spiral himself was also a newbie, recruited by Zuwo, another one who was big to promote newer members. Maxwell was here less than a year before he became Federalist Party Chairman.

Zuwo joined in May 2011, just five months latter, he was a critical RPP Regional Chair leading our GOTV efforts there. Cincinnatus was almost instantly made a Regional Chair and became the famous second half of the Duke/Cincy ticket in just about five to six months if memory serves me.

I remember when Tmth first told me about you, describing you as an intelligent policy guy wtih a bright future. Had you wanted to, really wanted to, we could have gotten you President. I don't know how it works on the left, but I can tell you on the right we have looked to promote promising new players and get them to a point where they can go for the big stuff.

Big Parties and old players who help and support new players are not the problem. Old players who trash, mock and ridicual new players, well that is a different matter.

[DKrol]

I'm sure SWE would be willing to back me up on this, but the inability of new players to get involved is greatly overstated. I joined in January of 2014 and I was quickly included by "old guard" figures Duke and Tmth. I won an election in the most populous region with the support of a huge segment of the old guard. Today, I still enjoy those relationships. Only a year and a half in. SWE has a similar story to tell.

Tmth was always looking to find new players and boost them up and support them. Cris didn't get active until 2014 but once he did, he advanced in the Midwest and then became Senator rather quickly. DC al Fine had only been here a couple of months when he was selected to succeed Spiral in the Senate. Spiral himself was also a newbie, recruited by Zuwo, another one who was big to promote newer members. Maxwell was here less than a year before he became Federalist Party Chairman.

Zuwo joined in May 2011, just five months latter, he was a critical RPP Regional Chair leading our GOTV efforts there. Cincinnatus was almost instantly made a Regional Chair and became the famous second half of the Duke/Cincy ticket in just about five to six months if memory serves me.

I remember when Tmth first told me about you, describing you as an intelligent policy guy wtih a bright future. Had you wanted to, really wanted to, we could have gotten you President. I don't know how it works on the left, but I can tell you on the right we have looked to promote promising new players and get them to a point where they can go for the big stuff.

Big Parties and old players who help and support new players are not the problem. Old players who trash, mock and ridicual new players, well that is a different matter.

Not to toot my own horn but I consider myself a newcomer who has done rather well.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Old players who trash, mock and ridicual new players, well that is a different matter.

Ridicule.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Old players who trash, mock and ridicual new players, well that is a different matter.

Ridicule.

Well speak of the devil.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Here's a question for you now. How many posters do you think remember the Reich Protection Party? And how many of those do you think care about it?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Here's a question for you now. How many posters do you think remember the Reich Protection Party? And how many of those do you think care about it?

You and your friends despised the Regional Protection Party and those who composed it from the minute it was created. You opposed its purpose, detested its existance, treated its members with contempt and longed for the end of the Atlasia that it had brought into being.

You know nothing of the community we built, or the vision for future that we had shared collectively of an Atlasia without bitterness and hatefulness of people who cannot seem to help themselves.

I think the vast majority share that vision without even realizing it. The notion of organized right continues inspite of your efforts to beat it into the ground and far more people want to build this game up rather than destroy it. The RPP's legacy is thus alive and well compared to the dismisiveness and apetite for destruction that has defined the bulk of your contributions to this game over the time that I have been here.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Here's a question for you now. How many posters do you think remember the Reich Protection Party? And how many of those do you think care about it?

You and your friends despised the Regional Protection Party and those who composed it from the minute it was created. You opposed its purpose, detested its existance, treated its members with contempt and longed for the end of the Atlasia that it had brought into being.

You know nothing of the community we built, or the vision for future that we had shared collectively of an Atlasia without bitterness and hatefulness of people who cannot seem to help themselves.

I think the vast majority share that vision without even realizing it. The notion of organized right continues inspite of your efforts to beat it into the ground and far more people want to build this game up rather than destroy it. The RPP's legacy is thus alive and well compared to the dismisiveness and apetite for destruction that has defined the bulk of your contributions to this game over the time that I have been here.

I've got no idea what the RPP was, other than the default home for mainstream conservatives. That's all it ever seemed to be to me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Here's a question for you now. How many posters do you think remember the Reich Protection Party? And how many of those do you think care about it?

You and your friends despised the Regional Protection Party and those who composed it from the minute it was created. You opposed its purpose, detested its existance, treated its members with contempt and longed for the end of the Atlasia that it had brought into being.

You know nothing of the community we built, or the vision for future that we had shared collectively of an Atlasia without bitterness and hatefulness of people who cannot seem to help themselves.

I think the vast majority share that vision without even realizing it. The notion of organized right continues inspite of your efforts to beat it into the ground and far more people want to build this game up rather than destroy it. The RPP's legacy is thus alive and well compared to the dismisiveness and apetite for destruction that has defined the bulk of your contributions to this game over the time that I have been here.

I've got no idea what the RPP was, other than the default home for mainstream conservatives. That's all it ever seemed to be to me.

You have to understand that there were two wings to the RPP. One was the moderate wing led by Duke and Cincy and the other was the more conservative one. The RPP provided a united effort for both groups to achieve their common goals. The latter wanted a chance to actually compete with the left on ideals, the former wanted to move past bitterness that defined Atlasia at the time and also past to a time where a candidate who didn't campaign could beat out two strong contenders wtih an active campaign simply because they were the beneficiary of the machine on the left.

This idealistic vision led to the formation of the The People's Party as a way to destroy Napoleon and his political aparatus and hopefully move Atlasia to a place where quality and campaigning mattered, not who could command the most votes, and one without all the nastiness and smearing that was occuring.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, we get that the Reich Protection Party and its 'legacy' is very very important to you. Message across! But will you now answer my question? Other than yourself, who do you think cares?

[Хahar 🤔]

You know nothing of the community we built, or the vision for future that we had shared collectively of an Atlasia without bitterness and hatefulness of people who cannot seem to help themselves.

In fact I have seen the private forum many times, so if any such thing existed I would be aware.

[Simfan34]

Perhaps the right should just be banned?

[Blair]

Perhaps the right should just be banned?

sounds good to us communist fascists in liebor 

[Leinad]

Yes, we get that the Reich Protection Party and its 'legacy' is very very important to you. Message across! But will you now answer my question? Other than yourself, who do you think cares?

You're the guy talking about the RPP now, Yankee is just responding to you.

Yes, he was talking about it earlier. This is a thread about the general problems in Atlasia, so Atlasian history is bound to come up. You can't talk about the US's foreign policy just by speaking of Iraq and Afghanistan, you need to talk at least a bit about Vietnam, Korea, and WWII. Likewise, Yankee was talking about the RPP not as some senile dinosaur rambling on about the past, but someone giving his side of the story in a silly conversation Talleyrand started.

And you were the first to implicitly mention the RPP with this gem:

Let's be clear here: the moronic yelping for 'REGIONAL RIGHTS' was the moment at which the game embarked upon the path that led to its decrepitude.

That was before Yankee said anything in this thread. You're acting like he brought it up unsolicited, which is a blatant lie.

Complaining about Yankee and his "RPP nostalgia" is just a diversion from your absurd doomsday argument.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

New to this are you? Ah, yes. I see that you are (or say that you are anyway. I'm not convinced). Let's just say that the Reich Protection Party is brought up by a certain poster on a pretty frequent basis even though literally no one else cares about it now.

[Leinad]

New to this are you? Ah, yes. I see that you are (or say that you are anyway. I'm not convinced). Let's just say that the Reich Protection Party is brought up by a certain poster on a pretty frequent basis even though literally no one else cares about it now.

I suppose he does bring it up now and then, but that's not what I'm trying to argue. My point is that it's off-topic for this thread to continually bash him over it. This isn't the thread for "Yankee is a dinosaur!" or "Leinad is a sock!" (by the way, shut the blank up with that nonsense), this is the thread for, well, doomsday talk and fear-mongering about Atlasia.

[Marokai Backbeat]

In its current form, probably.

I do have a bone to pick after glancing through this thread, though: Al, I love you, but come on now. Kalwejt made the point and it deserves to be repeated, the people clamoring about how "Atlasia was more fun when it was an election sim and not a government sim!" are just remembering a hot moment in time from a decade+ ago when this place was a cute little novelty with way less people. Atlasia became a "government sim" very very quickly, and worked more often than it didn't.

No call for "return Atlasia to an election sim and not a government sim!" is sustainable - that much is evident from how rapidly this place transformed into a fantasy government - and I don't even think anyone here could actually spell out for me what that even means. Do people take this place too seriously? Oh hell yes they do. More people should be fearless enough to run and lose and a lot of really sketchy crap has been done because some people here treat Atlasia's political organizations as if they're real. But that doesn't mean Atlasia would be any more sustainable in the long term if this place was just a series of more formalized Opinion Of polls. You need structure. We just have too much of it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Man, that post almost makes me want to rescind the President Kasich curse.


Edit: For those newbies out there, who might not be familiar with it. There was a time when well Marokai and I were like in this love-hate kind of relationship and during one of the more hate sided episodes, I cursed him with not only the election of Kasich as Governor, but his reelection and utlimately the election of said Mr. Kasich as President because MArokai didn't like him. 2/3rds of the way there.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I do have a bone to pick after glancing through this thread, though: Al, I love you, but come on now. Kalwejt made the point and it deserves to be repeated, the people clamoring about how "Atlasia was more fun when it was an election sim and not a government sim!" are just remembering a hot moment in time from a decade+ ago when this place was a cute little novelty with way less people. Atlasia became a "government sim" very very quickly, and worked more often than it didn't.

Oh I accept that the government aspect is an important one. Absolutely. But the current government setup - which I believe to be fundamentally unreformable - is a toxic mess.