Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[Hatman 🍁]

lol ok bud

[Poirot]

The Quebec National Assembly adopted a bill to make the oath of allegiance optional  to be able to sit in the assembly. CAQ, PLQ and QS voted for it. PQ members did not sit because they refused to take the oath. They will sit when the assembly work resumes on January 31.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-oath-king-law-1.6680764

It may be challenged in court. Some say it's not legal. PQ suggested a motion of the assembly to let members sit without the oath but the government chose to proceed with a law that modifies the constitution.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Seems to me like monarchists would be immensely dumb to try and challenge it; since doing so would put the debate surrounding monarchy in a much more prominent place in the Canadian public's mind. And uh, that public has been polled as being far less friendly to the monarchy since Lizzie's passing.

[Suburbia]

I don't think Canadian Tories are enthralled by the monarchy, they are now in the Carey Price route.....Canada should dump the monarchy and dump the King's residence, etc.

Trudeau says he is a man of the common Canadian, get rid of the monarchy.....

[MaxQue]

I don't think Canadian Tories are enthralled by the monarchy, they are now in the Carey Price route.....Canada should dump the monarchy and dump the King's residence, etc.

Trudeau says he is a man of the common Canadian, get rid of the monarchy.....

It would require the opening of the Constitution (where some provinces will try to impose other changes and veto everything else if they don't get what they want), approval of all 10 provinces after that and probably a nationwide referendum.

Not happening.

[Benjamin Frank]

In addition to what MaxQue said, while I prefer to speak only for myself and maybe younger Canadians are different, I suspect this issue wouldn't rank with Canadians among the top 500 issues for the government/Parliament to address (obviously being a little hyperbolic.)

Some people here think of Pierre Trudeau as 'base' now due to the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms but he and the Premiers bickered over this during the worst parts of the severe recession in 1981 (the agreement with the Premiers less Quebec Premier Rene Levesque was finalized in September 1981 but not signed by Queen Elizabeth until April 1982) and Trudeau was extrememly unpopular for prioritizing this over the economy.

That the Constitutional debate seemed to go on forever certainly though also didn't help. My mother and I believe many others referred to the whole thing as 'the constipation.'

[Hatman 🍁]

There is no appetite to open the constitution to abolish the monarchy.

https://twitter.com/EarlWashburn/status/1598799051008393216

[King of Kensington]

Winnipeg MP and former natural resources minister Jim Carr has died.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jim-carr-death-1.6683004

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

RIP

[Kleine Scheiße]

Ken Domik

[Benjamin Frank]

Just for general discussion if anybody is interested:

John Horgan was Dan Miller's Chief of Staff when Dan Miller was the interim Premier between Glen Clark and Ujjal Dosanjh.  Miller was also something of a mentor for Horgan.

In 1996 after Mike Harcourt resigned, there was some attempt to get Miller to run for NDP leader rather than Glen Clark. Miller was not interested and, apparently, did not even want to run again in the 1996 general election. (Nor apparently did Andrew Petter and possibly several others. About 1/4 of those elected in 1991 did not run again and had Miller and Petter also not run again it would have given a lot of credence to the notion of the 'rats deserting a sinking ship.)

Given the popularity of John Horgan, had Dan Miller become NDP leader in 1996 and not Glen Clark, would the NDP have become the 'natural governing party' of British Columbia in 1996?

[Benjamin Frank]

Ranj Pillai acclaimed as Yukon Liberal leader and the next Premier of Yukon.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/ranj-pillai-acclaimed-yukon-liberal-leader-1.6707647

[Alben Barkley]

https://twitter.com/duchess_elle/status/1618418266036396033?s=20

People are undoubtedly going to say that I'm too obsessed with this stuff or that I am somehow "transphobic."

In reality, what I have increasingly realized in recent years is that I simply think it is a huge mistake for the vast majority of people to make dramatic, irreversible changes to their bodies which render them sterile and impotent and which massively reduce their quality of life. It will inevitably lead to tragic cases like this.

Furthermore, I hate Canada now for its evil, f--ked up euthanasia program. I would vote strongly Conservative, undoubtedly, if I was Canadian over this single issue. It's not enough that they literally kill mentally ill people (in the current year now opening it up to even underage youth!), basically writing them off as lost causes with no better chance at making it than terminally ill people who literally can't physically survive much longer. This is extremely sick, insulting, and dehumanizing to me and many others in the world who have struggled with mental illness and strived our hardest to overcome it; according to Justin Trudeau, our lives are just worthless apparently, and there is no hope for us.

Now they are also allowing totally lucid, thoughtful, intelligent people who can contribute much to the world yet to kill themselves legally over mental pain and trauma. I can't even imagine how Canadian psychologists and psychiatrists are allowing this; you would think they would be strongly opposed to their patients simply giving up and offing themselves at the hands of the Canadian Government, yet it seems like the process to off yourself in Canada legally is as of 2023 about as simple as transferring ownership of a car.

While I still am strongly pro-choice when it comes to abortion, I cannot deny that I now more than ever understand the "slippery slope" argument behind certain pro-life stances. Human life is sacred and Canada is treating it in a horrific, dystopian, downright evil way. I would support the US placing international pressure on Canada to end this barbarism ASAP. Our so-called closest ally and neighbor should simply not be allowed to engage in such horrific, inhumane practices under any circumstances. Period.

[Benjamin Frank]

https://twitter.com/duchess_elle/status/1618418266036396033?s=20
People are undoubtedly going to say that I'm too obsessed with this stuff or that I am somehow "transphobic."

In reality, what I have increasingly realized in recent years is that I simply think it is a huge mistake for the vast majority of people to make dramatic, irreversible changes to their bodies which render them sterile and impotent and which massively reduce their quality of life. It will inevitably lead to tragic cases like this.

Furthermore, I hate Canada now for its evil, f--ked up euthanasia program. I would vote strongly Conservative, undoubtedly, if I was Canadian over this single issue. It's not enough that they literally kill mentally ill people (in the current year now opening it up to even underage youth!), basically writing them off as lost causes with no better chance at making it than terminally ill people who literally can't physically survive much longer. This is extremely sick, insulting, and dehumanizing to me and many others in the world who have struggled with mental illness and strived our hardest to overcome it; according to Justin Trudeau, our lives are just worthless apparently, and there is no hope for us.

Now they are also allowing totally lucid, thoughtful, intelligent people who can contribute much to the world yet to kill themselves legally over mental pain and trauma. I can't even imagine how Canadian psychologists and psychiatrists are allowing this; you would think they would be strongly opposed to their patients simply giving up and offing themselves at the hands of the Canadian Government, yet it seems like the process to off yourself in Canada legally is as of 2023 about as simple as transferring ownership of a car.

While I still am strongly pro-choice when it comes to abortion, I cannot deny that I now more than ever understand the "slippery slope" argument behind certain pro-life stances. Human life is sacred and Canada is treating it in a horrific, dystopian, downright evil way. I would support the US placing international pressure on Canada to end this barbarism ASAP. Our so-called closest ally and neighbor should simply not be allowed to engage in such horrific, inhumane practices under any circumstances. Period.

This episode of the Fifth Estate provides a good understanding of the process and the type of people who have asked for MAiD. it's not as simple as transferring ownership of a car and the mental pain and trauma seems to be very real and severe to the people in the program (none of whom are currently eligible for MAiD.)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/fifthestate/a-complicated-death-1.6717266

As I've said everytime an American mentions this,

Americans who dismiss mental pain and trauma:
How they think of themselves:
"I can easily live with this mental pain and trauma because I still have much to offer the world and I don't want to help cause this slippery slope."

The reality:
"Wear a mask in indoor public settings in a pandemic to help save lives?  It's too uncomfortable to wear a mask and it's an imposition on my freedom!"

I'm not trying to dismiss you as an American or anything (but Americans had the most selfish reaction to Covid of any advanced Western nation in the world), I'm trying to point out that when you dismiss significant mental pain and trauma, that you should think about how you would really feel if you were in the situation yourself and not as this imaginary 'hero' who would suffer for everybody else, because that's a fantasy (and that's not a reference to you personally, since most everybody likes to imagine themselves as some kind of hero, and not so much how they would likely really behave.)

The point of mentioning Covid is that it's evidence of how a clear majority of Americans actually behaved, and it was nothing like the self sacrificing stoic in suffering anguish as Americans clearly like to think of themselves. In fact, it was the most selfish, least self sacrificing and most unable to take any level of discomfort of any advanced Western nation in the world.

So, again, when commenting on people who want to access MAiD for themselves, I think it would really help if you and others did so on the basis of how you would very likely behave if if you were in their situation, and not how you'd like to think you'd behave. You might then have very different views on MAiD and on the people who want to access it.

[Hatman 🍁]

This remains to be a very minor issue in Canadian political discourse. Make of that what you will.

[MaxQue]

https://twitter.com/duchess_elle/status/1618418266036396033?s=20

People are undoubtedly going to say that I'm too obsessed with this stuff or that I am somehow "transphobic."

In reality, what I have increasingly realized in recent years is that I simply think it is a huge mistake for the vast majority of people to make dramatic, irreversible changes to their bodies which render them sterile and impotent and which massively reduce their quality of life. It will inevitably lead to tragic cases like this.

Furthermore, I hate Canada now for its evil, f--ked up euthanasia program. I would vote strongly Conservative, undoubtedly, if I was Canadian over this single issue. It's not enough that they literally kill mentally ill people (in the current year now opening it up to even underage youth!), basically writing them off as lost causes with no better chance at making it than terminally ill people who literally can't physically survive much longer. This is extremely sick, insulting, and dehumanizing to me and many others in the world who have struggled with mental illness and strived our hardest to overcome it; according to Justin Trudeau, our lives are just worthless apparently, and there is no hope for us.

Now they are also allowing totally lucid, thoughtful, intelligent people who can contribute much to the world yet to kill themselves legally over mental pain and trauma. I can't even imagine how Canadian psychologists and psychiatrists are allowing this; you would think they would be strongly opposed to their patients simply giving up and offing themselves at the hands of the Canadian Government, yet it seems like the process to off yourself in Canada legally is as of 2023 about as simple as transferring ownership of a car.

While I still am strongly pro-choice when it comes to abortion, I cannot deny that I now more than ever understand the "slippery slope" argument behind certain pro-life stances. Human life is sacred and Canada is treating it in a horrific, dystopian, downright evil way. I would support the US placing international pressure on Canada to end this barbarism ASAP. Our so-called closest ally and neighbor should simply not be allowed to engage in such horrific, inhumane practices under any circumstances. Period.

Shows a very poor understnading of Canadian politics, as Trudeau isn't responsible for it, neither the Conservatives could do anything about it, it's merely the consequence of a Supreme Court decision, saying that keeping alive people who want to die is a violation of their rights.

[Benjamin Frank]

https://twitter.com/duchess_elle/status/1618418266036396033?s=20
People are undoubtedly going to say that I'm too obsessed with this stuff or that I am somehow "transphobic."

In reality, what I have increasingly realized in recent years is that I simply think it is a huge mistake for the vast majority of people to make dramatic, irreversible changes to their bodies which render them sterile and impotent and which massively reduce their quality of life. It will inevitably lead to tragic cases like this.

Furthermore, I hate Canada now for its evil, f--ked up euthanasia program. I would vote strongly Conservative, undoubtedly, if I was Canadian over this single issue. It's not enough that they literally kill mentally ill people (in the current year now opening it up to even underage youth!), basically writing them off as lost causes with no better chance at making it than terminally ill people who literally can't physically survive much longer. This is extremely sick, insulting, and dehumanizing to me and many others in the world who have struggled with mental illness and strived our hardest to overcome it; according to Justin Trudeau, our lives are just worthless apparently, and there is no hope for us.

Now they are also allowing totally lucid, thoughtful, intelligent people who can contribute much to the world yet to kill themselves legally over mental pain and trauma. I can't even imagine how Canadian psychologists and psychiatrists are allowing this; you would think they would be strongly opposed to their patients simply giving up and offing themselves at the hands of the Canadian Government, yet it seems like the process to off yourself in Canada legally is as of 2023 about as simple as transferring ownership of a car.

While I still am strongly pro-choice when it comes to abortion, I cannot deny that I now more than ever understand the "slippery slope" argument behind certain pro-life stances. Human life is sacred and Canada is treating it in a horrific, dystopian, downright evil way. I would support the US placing international pressure on Canada to end this barbarism ASAP. Our so-called closest ally and neighbor should simply not be allowed to engage in such horrific, inhumane practices under any circumstances. Period.

Shows a very poor understnading of Canadian politics, as Trudeau isn't responsible for it, neither the Conservatives could do anything about it, it's merely the consequence of a Supreme Court decision, saying that keeping alive people who want to die is a violation of their rights.

That's a very broad interpretation of the Supreme Court ruling as I know you know.

Specifically, as one critic anyway posted here, and as is mentioned in that Fifth Estate program, the Supreme Court and later the Quebec Superior Court did not mandate the government include mentally ill people in MAiD (not in those rulings anyway.)

The government and Minister Lametti, if I remember this part of the program correctly, were persuaded by mental health legal advocates who argued that excluding those with mental illness was by itself discriminatory but also that in being discriminatory that it contributed to stigma against those with mental illnesses by playing into the false stereotype that everybody with mental illness is incapable of making rational decisions.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Jordan Petersen ordered into Media Retraining.

https://wng.org/opinions/the-re-education-of-jordan-peterson-1674697220



"Peterson has become Canada’s leading public intellectual, but he is despised by woke advocates for being a critic of their attempts to impose speech and thought control on the entire society."

"Peterson has argued that the transgender phenomenon is a social contagion harmful to vulnerable and mentally unstable children and young adults."

"It is about the ability of society to entertain views that are at odds with its canons of political correctness. But at a still more profound level, the issue is about the need to acknowledge the nature of reality."

Craig A. Carter is the research professor of theology at Tyndale University in Toronto, Ontario, and theologian in residence at Westney Heights Baptist Church in Ajax, Ontario.

[MaxQue]

Tyndale University? Anyone ever heard of it?

[politicallefty]

There is no appetite to open the constitution to abolish the monarchy.

https://twitter.com/EarlWashburn/status/1598799051008393216

For some reason, Canada has always struck me as the most difficult of the major Anglosphere countries to abolish the monarchy (apart from the UK itself). Obviously, the death of the Queen has changed things quite a bit. Those numbers suggest the issue isn't going away anytime soon. It's just a matter of finding the right solution/compromise. Justin Trudeau is certainly no Pierre Trudeau though.

[Hatman 🍁]

It would actually be harder to abolish the monarchy in Canada than in the UK.

[2952-0-0]

Tyndale University? Anyone ever heard of it?

Yes, it's well-known among Christian circles. It has a conservative bent, but it's fully mainstream and its education program trains a lot of teachers who work in mainstream schools.

As for Jordan Peterson, I view him more as a grifter who merely regurgitates other peoples' ideas and then repackage them for clickbait directed at people who are seeking a purpose in their lives.

[Suburbia]

It would actually be harder to abolish the monarchy in Canada than in the UK.

Shows you the perils of colonialism....probably the same thing with Australia, etc.

[Benjamin Frank]

Jordan Petersen ordered into Media Retraining.

https://wng.org/opinions/the-re-education-of-jordan-peterson-1674697220

"Peterson has become Canada’s leading public intellectual, but he is despised by woke advocates for being a critic of their attempts to impose speech and thought control on the entire society."

"Peterson has argued that the transgender phenomenon is a social contagion harmful to vulnerable and mentally unstable children and young adults."

"It is about the ability of society to entertain views that are at odds with its canons of political correctness. But at a still more profound level, the issue is about the need to acknowledge the nature of reality."

Craig A. Carter is the research professor of theology at Tyndale University in Toronto, Ontario, and theologian in residence at Westney Heights Baptist Church in Ajax, Ontario.

Grifter trying to cancel trangendered people whines about being cancelled, even though he hasn't been. Film at 11.

The most interesting quote in that article is this: Men and women are born as men or women. Every cell in our bodies is either male or female. This is not opinion or politics but scientific fact.

I haven't followed these arguments on transgender. While I worry a little about what those under 18 may be doing to themselves, I know that Nanny Petstheirson wants to tell parents what they can and can't do with their children and I know that Conman Peddlerrson is making a lot of money off of this latest moral panic.

I also know that the author of the article is a theology professor and not a scientist.

Finally, I know that bodies are full of mistakes and mistakes that develop from flaws with the body like genetic diseases and autoimmune diseases, not even to mention babies born with all sorts of physical and mental issues.

So, not only would it not surprise me that there are bodies where genders get mixed up in some ways, I would fully expect it to be the case.

I think a lot of this stems from religious people not being able to accept that God didn't make humans physically and biologically perfect (at least at birth) even though that is clearly not a scientific fact.

[CumbrianLefty]

Peterson grifting? Say it ain't so!