Did Susan Collins just announced her retirement?

[Calthrina950]

She may as well have. Democrats were stupid for indulging her for so many years when she was clearly not a moderate.

Yep, the pro-gay, pro-choice Republican that defeated numerous Obamacare repeal attempts is not a moderate because she's not voting the way you personally want. Cry me an Inksing river.

With that in mind, I think this was actually her reaffirming that she's not done. All the talk of civility gives her an alibi to stay on.

Nobody to the right of Javits is even kind of a moderate to Atlas Democrats.

This much is true. A moderate for most of the left-leaning users on this forum is someone who marches in lockstep with the Democratic agenda.

[Calthrina950]

She may as well have. Democrats were stupid for indulging her for so many years when she was clearly not a moderate.

Yep, the pro-gay, pro-choice Republican that defeated numerous Obamacare repeal attempts is not a moderate because she's not voting the way you personally want. Cry me an Inksing river.

With that in mind, I think this was actually her reaffirming that she's not done. All the talk of civility gives her an alibi to stay on.

If Collins is pro-choice, why does she vote for literally every single Federalist Society justice when every FS justice wants to overturn Roe v. Wade?

Because Moderate Republicans are a ruse. Note how centrist hero John McCain's landmark McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform legislation was overturned by the very conservative justices who he had ALL voted to confirm.

That was McCain's shtick throughout his entire godforsaken life. Playing the role of the hero and getting the bootlicking media and those who consumed it to play along with him.

But McCain was widely respected by his counterparts on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum. This comment of yours, and the other comments on this board, would prefer that we just consolidate into locked, partisan camps with no one ever aiming to reach out to the other side.

[Calthrina950]

She may as well have. Democrats were stupid for indulging her for so many years when she was clearly not a moderate.

Yep, the pro-gay, pro-choice Republican that defeated numerous Obamacare repeal attempts is not a moderate because she's not voting the way you personally want. Cry me an Inksing river.

With that in mind, I think this was actually her reaffirming that she's not done. All the talk of civility gives her an alibi to stay on.

If Collins is pro-choice, why does she vote for literally every single Federalist Society justice when every FS justice wants to overturn Roe v. Wade?

Because Moderate Republicans are a ruse. Note how centrist hero John McCain's landmark McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform legislation was overturned by the very conservative justices who he had ALL voted to confirm.

That was McCain's shtick throughout his entire godforsaken life. Playing the role of the hero and getting the bootlicking media and those who consumed it to play along with him.

But McCain was widely respected by his counterparts on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum. This comment of yours, and the other comments on this board, would prefer that we just consolidate into locked, partisan camps with no one ever aiming to reach out to the other side.

My dear Calthrina, it's almost as if you don't realize that both parties are working for the same elite puppetmasters, against the very interests of the masses that are corralled into voting for them and believing the illusion of choice, and that the reason we are headed directly into unparalleled destruction is because they have worked together for such aims for so long.

That completely contradicts the message that has been bandied about here. The argument has been that the parties are polarizing more and more, and that this divergence in viewpoints has clearly become visible through all areas of policy. While I do not deny the corruption and the backdealing that goes on in Washington D.C., I also haven't lost sight of the fact that the two parties are increasingly unable to see eye to eye with each other.

[Calthrina950]

But McCain was widely respected by his counterparts on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum. This comment of yours, and the other comments on this board, would prefer that we just consolidate into locked, partisan camps with no one ever aiming to reach out to the other side.

No, it just means having a little variety in your the judges you support. Simple things like non-rapists, non-partisan hacks, the occasional moderate, especially when the top court is already teetering on the edge of a far-right majority.

What one of the users said above makes perfect sense. If you think campaign finance is in dire need of reform and worked hard to pass said major reforms, it makes literally no sense to confirm judges you think will overturn that law. Likewise, for someone like Collins, if you really care about Roe, it makes no sense to help create a conservative court majority that will surely either strike it down outright or kill it via death by a 1000 cuts. Again, it makes no sense to confirm an endless succession of judges who will do just that.

This is a basic principle that should apply to politicians on both sides. If POTUS nominates someone who is anathema to some of your core positions, don't vote for them. But no, what you end up with is majority caucuses that are nothing but tools for POTUS and the Majority Leader. It's pathetic. You don't have to adhere 100% to a partisan agenda to be a moderate, but jesus, have some backbone and don't rubber stamp every judicial pick made. That was not how the Senate was supposed to work. If the framers intended POTUS to always get who they wanted every. single time., they would not have even given the Senate the right to confirm. But they did, and now all it is used for is to obstruct the opposition party if they control the White House, because most Senators are a bunch of partisan hacks who fall in line.

I'm not trying to defend Kavanaugh here. I've made clear elsewhere that he should not be confirmed, due to the concerns raised by his testimony, the allegations, and some of the more objectionable aspects of his judicial record. What I'm trying to fight is the perception, held by many users on this forum, that only those who are on the left side of the ideological spectrum are "worthy" and "good". Many users here would have us reduced to a one-party system, in which Democratic policies and Democratic ideas are pushed, 24/7, without any regard for alternatives. Partisanship, more then anything else, has fueled the reaction by many to the issues on here.

[Calthrina950]

I can't believe I'm saying this but IceSpear has the most reasonable takes in this thread....

Uh, excuse me...when are my takes ever not reasonable?

I'm old enough to remember when Dems vowed to make Chuck Grassley pay for obstructing Garland...then within a week Trump did/said something stupid and distracted them with shiny objects, they all forgot, Grassley was a "reasonable sane moderate" again worthy of tons of crossover support, and then they got unceremoniously BTFO. And this was a mere 8 months before the election rather than 2 years! I fully expect something similar this time. In a month people will probably forget Kavanaugh's name and be focusing on Trump calling brown kids monkeys or something, and they'll love Susan Collins again because she had the "courage and bravery" to be a "maverick" and release a strongly worded statement condemning him for his tone.

Do you believe Collins will win reelection in 2020, if she runs again? Your overall pessimism about America and the American electorate seems to be relatively well justified at this point.

[Calthrina950]

I can't believe I'm saying this but IceSpear has the most reasonable takes in this thread....

Uh, excuse me...when are my takes ever not reasonable?

I'm old enough to remember when Dems vowed to make Chuck Grassley pay for obstructing Garland...then within a week Trump did/said something stupid and distracted them with shiny objects, they all forgot, Grassley was a "reasonable sane moderate" again worthy of tons of crossover support, and then they got unceremoniously BTFO. And this was a mere 8 months before the election rather than 2 years! I fully expect something similar this time. In a month people will probably forget Kavanaugh's name and be focusing on Trump calling brown kids monkeys or something, and they'll love Susan Collins again because she had the "courage and bravery" to be a "maverick" and release a strongly worded statement condemning him for his tone.

Do you believe Collins will win reelection in 2020, if she runs again? Your overall pessimism about America and the American electorate seems to be relatively well justified at this point.

She could retire or lose the primary. If she runs and wins the primary then yeah, I think she wins. Maybe not by the gaudy margins she usually gets, but Maine will probably be within single digits again, so I don't see her having much of a problem getting the needed crossover votes for victory. Especially once she releases strongly worded statements condemning Trump for using the N word on Twitter in October 2020.

Probably so. I'm seriously starting to wonder at this point if America will remain this polarized and this partisan for the remainder of the century. Over time, the consequences for our political system will be disastrous.

[Calthrina950]

I can't believe I'm saying this but IceSpear has the most reasonable takes in this thread....

Uh, excuse me...when are my takes ever not reasonable?

I'm old enough to remember when Dems vowed to make Chuck Grassley pay for obstructing Garland...then within a week Trump did/said something stupid and distracted them with shiny objects, they all forgot, Grassley was a "reasonable sane moderate" again worthy of tons of crossover support, and then they got unceremoniously BTFO. And this was a mere 8 months before the election rather than 2 years! I fully expect something similar this time. In a month people will probably forget Kavanaugh's name and be focusing on Trump calling brown kids monkeys or something, and they'll love Susan Collins again because she had the "courage and bravery" to be a "maverick" and release a strongly worded statement condemning him for his tone.

Do you believe Collins will win reelection in 2020, if she runs again? Your overall pessimism about America and the American electorate seems to be relatively well justified at this point.

She could retire or lose the primary. If she runs and wins the primary then yeah, I think she wins. Maybe not by the gaudy margins she usually gets, but Maine will probably be within single digits again, so I don't see her having much of a problem getting the needed crossover votes for victory. Especially once she releases strongly worded statements condemning Trump for using the N word on Twitter in October 2020.

Probably so. I'm seriously starting to wonder at this point if America will remain this polarized and this partisan for the remainder of the century. Over time, the consequences for our political system will be disastrous.

See my above post about Senate composition. It's worrying.

I did read your post, and I agree with its conclusions. The solidification of this country into blue and red states has done much to further this process of polarization along.