UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[Helsinkian]

The Guardian demands that the statue of Horatio Nelson be taken down: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery?CMP=soc_3156

[Helsinkian]

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/nigel-farage-backs-fresh-brexit-referendum-to-kill-off-issue

[Helsinkian]

So what are the chances of this moderate hero party being actually formed?

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/07/new-political-party-break-mould-westminster-uk-brexit

[Helsinkian]

The free speech activist and citizen journalist Tommy Robinson has been sentenced to a 13 month prison term in the UK. His crime? Providing coverage of a grooming gang trial. He was filming a live video outside the court house when he was arrested. Robinson's trial and sentencing took place on the same day and took about 30 minutes.

And in an Orwellian twist the judge has prohibited all media organisations from reporting on his sentence. They've managed to take down the reporting of some non-UK websites as well but this article is still up and they can't silence Twitter.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/05/orwells-nightmare-articles-about-tommy-robinsons-arrest-rapidly-scrubbed-from-the-internet/

UK (and the rest of Europe) is truly in need of a 1st Amendment.

[Helsinkian]

Even if he were a bigot who's "spreading his hate" why should that be illegal? Hate is an emotion. You can't criminalize emotions.

[Helsinkian]

Even if he were a bigot who's "spreading his hate" why should that be illegal? Hate is an emotion. You can't criminalize emotions.

So, calling to kill all Muslisms should be legal?

You really don't see a difference between these statements?

1. "We all need to hate group X."
2. "We should kill group X."

The second sentence is incitement to violence. It needs to be illegal.

The first sentence may be morally repugnant but it is nevertheless merely an opinion that contains no incitement to violence. Thus the first sentence should not be illegal, and in America it is not illegal (indeed, the US Supreme Court has even defended abstract references to violence as free speech, prohibiting only such speech that incites imminent lawless action).

[Helsinkian]

So, in the US justice system the 12 jurors are sequestered to keep them from hearing reports on the trial, whereas in the UK justice system 65 million Britons are sequestered from hearing reports so that the 12 jurors would not hear them. Sounds brilliant.

[Helsinkian]

The free speech activist and citizen journalist Tommy Robinson has been sentenced to a 13 month prison term in the UK. His crime? Providing coverage of a grooming gang trial. He was filming a live video outside the court house when he was arrested. Robinson's trial and sentencing took place on the same day and took about 30 minutes.

Trump's ambassador for international religious freedom has interceded on Robinson's behalf:

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/14/us-raises-concerns-with-uk-about-safety-of-tommy-robinson-jailed-edl-founder

[Helsinkian]

Tommy Robinson has been freed from prison on appeal. There will be a re-trial.

[Helsinkian]

Sometimes I am ashamed to be a white man. We've done so much evil in this world.

Attitudes like this are the reason Trump won.

[Helsinkian]

They voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the EU

19,322 (95.9%) voted remain at a 83.5% turnout..

They voted even more overwhelmingly to reject Spanish sovereignty: 98.97% against it with 87.9% turnout.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002

[Helsinkian]

And anyway why should we be the ones to swallow our pride about it? Given the fairly obvious popular support for remaining part of the UK, it should be the Spanish who swallow their pride and accept they're not going to control every bit of land that they want. I'm no imperialist (to put it mildly) but it astonishes me how many people are willing to throw the self-determination of places like Gibraltar and the Falklands out the window for little more than posturing.

I don't see the evidence, how can you say that? because of a referendum conducted 16 years?!
people change their views when the circumstances change,

If there were another referendum on Gibraltar sovereignty would you honestly bet for the Spain option winning?

Brighton and Hove also voted to remain in the EU. Do you think that means they prefer joining France and thus staying in the EU over staying in Brexit UK?

[Helsinkian]

fact remains that Gibraltar has been British since 1713. Would they really join Spain just to stay in the EU, and give up a British identity in the process?

As I said I have no idea, but I read many articles on Bloomberg and the Economist, how Gibraltar is deeply dependent on the EU's single market,
if businesses in Gibraltar can't gain access to the EU single market or are highly tariffed,
Leaving the UK might be appealing to business community in Gibraltar....

Money is not the only factor that contributes to how people vote. Among other factors, there's this thing called national pride.

[Helsinkian]

Joan Ryan (Enfield North) has quit Labour.

She is joining TIG.

This is how Young Labour reacted: