Joe Biden 2020 campaign megathread v3 (pg 45 - mass-dropout aftermath)

[junior chįmp]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

Yes....Biden leads in the polls not because of the demographic makeup of the primary voting electorate but because the voters hunger for bipartisanship and moderation which is something that the electorate is always thinking about. They can never get enough of that moderate-ism except when they voted for a guy like Trump who promised to build a wall, bring jobs back, and soak bullets in pigs blood before shooting Muslim terrorists. All moderate viewpoints compared to the extreme left wing insanity of universal healthcare (which has existed in Germany since Bismarck) and free college (which was the norm in the US up until the 80s).

I do not disagree with the point in general, but comparing the republican electorate to the democratic electorate is just dumb.

I was talking more about the general election electorate than the primary electorate. Apparently the same people who voted for Trump in the GE of 2016 saw him as the moderate compared to Hillary Clinton whose entire campaign was dictated by consultants, pollsters, and strategists who live and breath being a moderate.is the key to electoral success

[Bidenworth2020]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

Yes....Biden leads in the polls not because of the demographic makeup of the primary voting electorate but because the voters hunger for bipartisanship and moderation which is something that the electorate is always thinking about. They can never get enough of that moderate-ism except when they voted for a guy like Trump who promised to build a wall, bring jobs back, and soak bullets in pigs blood before shooting Muslim terrorists. All moderate viewpoints compared to the extreme left wing insanity of universal healthcare (which has existed in Germany since Bismarck) and free college (which was the norm in the US up until the 80s).

I do not disagree with the point in general, but comparing the republican electorate to the democratic electorate is just dumb.

I was talking more about the general election electorate than the primary electorate. Apparently the same people who voted for Trump in the GE of 2016 saw him as the moderate compared to Hillary Clinton whose entire campaign was dictated by consultants, pollsters, and strategists who live and breath being a moderate.is the key to electoral success

Well I would add that actual moderation is not really what makes somebody look like a moderate. It is all in relation to the median. That is why people like Bernie and Trump (obviously not comparing the two in terms of policy but their appeals are paralleled in a sense) have had a lot of success, as they have portrayed themselves as outsiders, while people like Clinton are the epitome of the establishment.

[bilaps]

I always believed that Democrats would try to nominate the antithesis of Donald Trump. And additionally, there's a historical pattern of electing Presidents stylistically-opposite of their predecessors (Carter>Reagan, Bush>Clinton, Bush>Obama, Obama>Trump).

Biden would fit this pattern perfectly; aside from his demographics, he couldn't be more opposite than Trump in temperament, style, beliefs, and personality.

Biden's strength in general election is perceived in the notion that he could take just enough Trump voters away from him in midwest, wwc guys to beat him by the smallest of margins just like Trump won in 2016. Recent polls have however started to put some cold water on that take and if he loses that edge what else will remain for him? He's not going to win this election based on enthusiasm or energy of the progressives or younger people. So basically his argument is fear of Trump. Good luck with that. In the same time his polling average is somewhere between 25 and 30 in dem primary. If he is at 25 instead of 30 and some polls have suggested that, with his strength in south and places like FL and VA he is going to get killed in IA, NH, NV and CA. And then, you have a "fronturunnner"who is lost 4 out of 5 contests with delegate rich CA among those practically guaranteeing a long primary until the convention. And oh boy, is he gaffe prone for that sort of campaign..

[Mr. Smith]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

So, how long until Trump goes full Nixon to get Biden as his McGovern?

I always believed that Democrats would try to nominate the antithesis of Donald Trump. And additionally, there's a historical pattern of electing Presidents stylistically-opposite of their predecessors (Carter>Reagan, Bush>Clinton, Bush>Obama, Obama>Trump).

Biden would fit this pattern perfectly; aside from his demographics, he couldn't be more opposite than Trump in temperament, style, beliefs, and personality.

Same gaffes, lack of ownership to wrongdoing [see Anita Hill], and real POS kids too!

[Bidenworth2020]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

So, how long until Trump goes full Nixon to get Biden as his McGovern?

I always believed that Democrats would try to nominate the antithesis of Donald Trump. And additionally, there's a historical pattern of electing Presidents stylistically-opposite of their predecessors (Carter>Reagan, Bush>Clinton, Bush>Obama, Obama>Trump).

Biden would fit this pattern perfectly; aside from his demographics, he couldn't be more opposite than Trump in temperament, style, beliefs, and personality.

Same gaffes, lack of ownership to wrongdoing [see Anita Hill], and real POS kids too!

Beau was a decorated army veteran and popularly elected AG in Delaware.

[Mr. Smith]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

So, how long until Trump goes full Nixon to get Biden as his McGovern?

I always believed that Democrats would try to nominate the antithesis of Donald Trump. And additionally, there's a historical pattern of electing Presidents stylistically-opposite of their predecessors (Carter>Reagan, Bush>Clinton, Bush>Obama, Obama>Trump).

Biden would fit this pattern perfectly; aside from his demographics, he couldn't be more opposite than Trump in temperament, style, beliefs, and personality.

Same gaffes, lack of ownership to wrongdoing [see Anita Hill], and real POS kids too!

Beau was a decorated army veteran and popularly elected AG in Delaware.

Yes and Tiffany T. seems to have her head on right too, and Barron is out of the spotlight. Doesn't excuse the other Trump kids.

Likewise Beau doesn't excuse Hunter.

[Bidenworth2020]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

So, how long until Trump goes full Nixon to get Biden as his McGovern?

I always believed that Democrats would try to nominate the antithesis of Donald Trump. And additionally, there's a historical pattern of electing Presidents stylistically-opposite of their predecessors (Carter>Reagan, Bush>Clinton, Bush>Obama, Obama>Trump).

Biden would fit this pattern perfectly; aside from his demographics, he couldn't be more opposite than Trump in temperament, style, beliefs, and personality.

Same gaffes, lack of ownership to wrongdoing [see Anita Hill], and real POS kids too!

Beau was a decorated army veteran and popularly elected AG in Delaware.

Yes and Tiffany T. seems to have her head on right too, and Barron is out of the spotlight. Doesn't excuse the other Trump kids.

Likewise Beau doesn't excuse Hunter.

Fair; I am no fan of Hunter. I have always thought that politicians should not be judged by the actions of their children unless they encourage their children to act in these ways overtly, which Biden, of course, has not done.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

The rich aren't just stuffing all their money under the bed or something: even if I decide not to invest it, spend a moment of my time thinking about it, or anything fiscally related, all that money is still in the bank, being loaned out to businesses, innovators, and consumers, helping the economy grow, keeping capital lines open, and helping Americans of all stripes.

Factually incorrect. Banks do not loan bank deposits, nor is their ability to make loans in any way constrained by the amount of deposits deposited with them. Saying so is strictly a categorical error roughly equivalent to saying that "cows are a type of building."

There is no particular connection with how many bank deposits rich people (or poor people) have and the ability/willingness of banks to make loans, or of the desire/creditworthiness of firms (or people) to take out loans.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy

Banks do make loans on the basis of capital that is put into them. That's literally how banks work. Why else do you think banks would take deposits? They like paying you money in interest fees?

This is asinine.
My university Economics professor would beat you over the head with a baseball bat if you were in my class (and that was 25 years ago). One thing he would literally repeat over and over and over again (and it's forever in my head) is that "banks to not lend-out their customer's deposits."
Pick-up some books related to the banking industry and the federal reserve.

You sit there typing things like "your second point is BS" and "that's one of the dumbest takes on the left," but yet you are the one spewing full-blown diarrhea in your supposed facts on how banking works.

I know what you're talking about. It's still stupid bs, so you can go off with it. Yes, a bank will not take the $5 you deposited and loan it out. However, what they do do is use it to increase their lending capacity to make increased loans, which serve LITERALLY THE SAME FUNCTION! The economic effect is the same.

[Podgy the Bear]

How Trump has given Biden a major campaign boost

After three years of his chaotic presidency, President Donald Trump has made nostalgia a big, bold idea among Democrats. This is one of the secrets to former Vice President Joe Biden's ongoing success in the polls. The President, with the full support of his party in Congress, has pushed politics so far off-kilter that Americans are desperately yearning for normalcy in the Oval Office.
On paper, Biden is not offering anything very dramatic. He himself embodies an older vision of the Democratic Party, in contrast to the slate of women, African Americans and Latinos who have made inroads in both the presidential race and in Congress. While his campaign has put forward a series of policy promises that aim to expand on President Barack Obama's domestic record, he often talks about a return to some kind of better past.
Biden has called for Democrats and Republicans to work together again. During the debate this week, he said that while he has "no love" for Republicans who attacked his family, "the fact is, we have to be able to get things done." Biden has frequently repeated a key tenet of his campaign: "We're in a battle for the soul of America." In doing so, he often talks about traditional American values that he respects and would champion as commander-in-chief. Even his "no malarkey" bus tour, which has been thoroughly mocked by younger generations, takes us back in time with the use of outdated slang.
Progressive critics point out that these promises evoke a past that no longer exists (and in many cases, never existed) and thus misleads voters into thinking that our country is in better shape than it is. His calls for bipartisanship, for instance, have rightly been met with deep skepticism given the radical outlook of a GOP that hasn't shown any interest in reaching across the aisle for several decades. Biden appeals to our better angels, but the Trump era has shown that those angels are too often absent from our polity.
But the criticism isn't undercutting Biden as much as it might in different times. And the reason is the President. Trump has blown up an already volatile political atmosphere with the way he governs. His vitriolic tweets, his aggressive use and abuse of presidential power, his punitive policies, his smashmouth attacks on opponents and his total disregard for the conventions and norms of Washington have created a toxic atmosphere where everything feels upended. To many Democrats, the nation is in a true state of crisis.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/21/opinions/trump-campaign-boost-for-biden-return-to-normalcy-zelizer/index.html

So, how long until Trump goes full Nixon to get Biden as his McGovern?

I always believed that Democrats would try to nominate the antithesis of Donald Trump. And additionally, there's a historical pattern of electing Presidents stylistically-opposite of their predecessors (Carter>Reagan, Bush>Clinton, Bush>Obama, Obama>Trump).

Biden would fit this pattern perfectly; aside from his demographics, he couldn't be more opposite than Trump in temperament, style, beliefs, and personality.

Same gaffes, lack of ownership to wrongdoing [see Anita Hill], and real POS kids too!

Beau was a decorated army veteran and popularly elected AG in Delaware.

Yes and Tiffany T. seems to have her head on right too, and Barron is out of the spotlight. Doesn't excuse the other Trump kids.

Likewise Beau doesn't excuse Hunter.

And I'm not voting for Trump because Eric and Donald Jr are disgusting.  I'm not voting for Trump because he is scum.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I know what you're talking about. It's still stupid bs, so you can go off with it. Yes, a bank will not take the $5 you deposited and loan it out. However, what they do do is use it to increase their lending capacity to make increased loans, which serve LITERALLY THE SAME FUNCTION! The economic effect is the same.

You clearly didn't bother to read the link and are still repeating falsehoods, so I'll post it again for you -

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy

But I guess that is the Republican thing these days, just repeating falsehoods without caring that they are false, cuz why not?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I know what you're talking about. It's still stupid bs, so you can go off with it. Yes, a bank will not take the $5 you deposited and loan it out. However, what they do do is use it to increase their lending capacity to make increased loans, which serve LITERALLY THE SAME FUNCTION! The economic effect is the same.

You clearly didn't bother to read the link and are still repeating falsehoods, so I'll post it again for you -

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy

But I guess that is the Republican thing these days, just repeating falsehoods without caring that they are false, cuz why not?

https://www.moneyunder30.com/how-banks-make-money


https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/022416/why-banks-dont-need-your-money-make-loans.asp (this source talks about how each dollar deposited has a multiple effect, but the point is the same in that deposits allow them to make increased loans)

https://www.chimebank.com/2017/10/24/how-do-banks-make-money/

Everything you're saying makes 0 sense and is completely ridiculous. Stop posting Keynesian bullsh**t, especially when it's not even relevant. Your link is talking about Central Bank monetary policy and how interest rates are adjusted, but you are completely ignoring common sense and the topic at hand. Do you really mean to deny that money being deposited in a bank doesn't increase that banks ability to make loans? If so, why do you think banks take deposits? Charity?

[Rookie Yinzer]

https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1208790298744233984?s=20

Why I’ve stopped resisting Biden. It’s a fruitless effort.

[Frodo]

Biden is inevitable.  Resistance is futile. 

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/022416/why-banks-dont-need-your-money-make-loans.asp (this source talks about how each dollar deposited has a multiple effect, but the point is the same in that deposits allow them to make increased loans)

It is false that deposits multiply into loans, but it sounds like you looked at least a bit at the Bank of England article and recognize that that is false, so this is at least some progress.

It is false that deposits allow banks to make more loans. As the BoE link also says in more detail, consider that if you don't deposit your money in a bank, then the alternative is that you have spent the money on something, i.e. by writing a check, in which case your bank account is debited, so you have less deposits, and the account of the other business/corporation/person is credited, so they have more deposits. What does this other person/business/corporation do with it? This leaves the overall amount of deposits essentially unchanged regardless of whether you personally choose to keep a deposit or to spend it (of course, you can withdraw cash from a bank, but in reality the amounts of cash that are circulating in the economy are comparatively small, especially in the modern world where things like credit cards and checks are commonly used as means of payment). So the idea that an individual person like you making a bank deposit allows the banking system to make more loans is incoherent partly because your act of depositing in a bank doesn't change the total amount of deposits in the banking system as a whole - it just means that the particular bank that you have deposited in has more deposits, as opposed to another bank that would end up having more deposits instead if you alternatively spent the money (again, to be precise, this is aside from small amounts of literal cash that circulate in the economy, which are not particularly important because they are very small and don't vary much).

So if your act of depositing or not depositing has no effect on the amount of deposits, what does determine the amount of deposits in the banking system? The amount of loans that banks make determines it.

Everything you're saying makes 0 sense and is completely ridiculous. Stop posting Keynesian bullsh**t, especially when it's not even relevant. Your link is talking about Central Bank monetary policy and how interest rates are adjusted, but you are completely ignoring common sense and the topic at hand. Do you really mean to deny that money being deposited in a bank doesn't increase that banks ability to make loans? If so, why do you think banks take deposits? Charity?

As far as supposed "Keynesian bullsh**t" goes, what I said is that:

Instead, investment in the second sense is determined by whether or not businesses expect that if they build more plant and equipment, they will be able to profitably sell the output that can potentially be produced using the new plant and equipment that would be created by investing in the second sense. If you are a businessman and you don't expect to be able to profitably sell output, then you don't produce. If you do expect to be able to profitably sell output, then you do produce. You don't produce more than you expect to be able to profitably sell, because then you are losing money. In other words, how much you produce is determined by expected demand for your output.

(emphasis added). In other words, what I said is precisely that businesses do not operate as charities - they decide to produce or to not produce something (or in the case of banks, to provide banking services or not to provide banking services) on the basis of whether they expect it to be profitable or not.

This is entirely consistent with your apparent belief that businesses do not operate as charities. Indeed, if you do in fact believe that businesses operate not as charities, but instead to make a profit, then you should ask yourself the question - "why would a business produce something if they don't expect to be able to sell it for a profit?" The answer is that they would not (or at any rate, if they do, then they will lose money, which will tend to drive them out of business, and so over the long run they won't, because they'll be out of business). Which means precisely that how much gets produced is limited by how much demand is expected. So if you are logically consistent in your apparent belief that businesses do not operate as charities, then you believe that the output is limited by expected demand; i.e. you are a Keynesian yourself.



Regarding the second part of what you said:

Your link is talking about Central Bank monetary policy and how interest rates are adjusted, but you are completely ignoring common sense and the topic at hand. Do you really mean to deny that money being deposited in a bank doesn't increase that banks ability to make loans? If so, why do you think banks take deposits? Charity?

First of all, not all banks (depending on how you define a "bank") do actually take deposits. IIRC all retail FDIC banks do (probably what you are thinking of when you talk about "banks") in part because that is a legal requirement of being a FDIC commercial/retail bank.

As mentioned above, banks do not operate charities and exist in order to make a profit. Banks make profits by maintaining positive interest rate spreads between their assets and their liabilities. This is not the same thing as "taking deposits" and it is not necessary for banks to take deposits in order to maintain positive interest rate spreads between assets/liabilities.

When banks get more deposits, what this means is that at the end of the day they clear with other banks and the Federal Reserve, and they have more reserves as a result (and reserves held in the banks' account at the Fed are assets of banks). This is probably what you are trying to get at, but are not saying it right.

Why would banks want to hold reserves? A few reasons. First, in the US, currently they are required to hold some by regulation. This is unnecessary though and doesn't have any impact except for acting as a tax on banks and reducing their profits (Canadian banks do not have reserve requirements, and they do just fine and Canadian banks are quite ordinary and unremarkable). Secondly, banks want to hold some reserves in order to maintain liquidity. Banks can convert reserves in their account at the Fed on demand, so by holding some reserves, banks have a liquidity cushion enabling them to give their customers cash if/when their customers ask to make a withdrawal from their checking accounts.

Thirdly, currently the Federal Reserve pays interest on reserves - and in fact this interest is higher than the interest that banks pay you on your checking/savings account. So banks are happy enough to hold your deposits and earn a positive interest rate spread and make money off of you, by receiving more interest on reserves from the Fed than the interest they pay to you on your deposit (note that none of this involves banks making any additional loans). Although ideally, banks would rather hold some other asset instead of reserves that will earn them an even larger interest rate spread.

Currently though, and ever since 2008 in the era of quantitative easing, banks have WAYYYY more reserves than they actually want. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EXCSRESNS

So it should be clear that reserves are not any sort of limit on loans, and all that needs to be done to have more loans is not simply for banks to have more reserves (and certainly is not simply for banks to have more deposits either).

Instead, the amount of loans that are made is determined by (and limited by) how many loans bank think that it will be profitable for them to make (as you correctly say, banks are not charities - they try to make a profit). If there are creditworthy borrowers who banks think will not default on their loans and can pay enough interest so that banks can make a profit, then the bank will make a loan. If not, then the bank won't make a loan. I.E. the amount of loans is limited by the (creditworthy) demand for loans (which can be influenced to some degree by the Fed's monetary policy/interest rates, because interest rates impact both interest rate spreads that banks can earn and how much demand there will be for loans).

This is all explained better and in more detail at the BoE link, which really is worth closely reading if you are genuinely interested in understanding.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

One last point - we shouldn't really derail this thread further because this is supposed to be the Biden megathread and has drifted off topic (if you want to continue we can continue via DM or maybe on the economics board, but at this point all that really remains is for you to inform yourself by reading the Bank of England link and researching).

you are completely ignoring common sense and the topic at hand.

According to common sense, the world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth. Also, apparently according to many Republicans' understanding of "common sense," Trump is completely innocent and did nothing wrong. So common sense can be and often is entirely incorrect and misleading. Common sense can and does lie to you, and if you are interested in correctly understanding how the world works, you are making a mistake if you unquestioningly rely on common sense, in general.

[ProudModerate2]

One last point - we shouldn't really derail this thread further because this is supposed to be the Biden megathread and has drifted off topic ...

Agree.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

1 more month and the Y2K people are gonna take back Democracy and Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg are gonna be the last ones standing for the Democratic nomination for Prez and Veep. When Pete wins IA and Bernie wins NH.

This isnt drifting off topic, Biden isnt the choice of new aged generation, he is only the elders and Establishment choice, and Biden didnt want to run, and he is corrupted

[Adam Griffin]

1 more month and the Y2K people are gonna take back Democracy and Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg are gonna be the last ones standing for the Democratic nomination for Prez and Veep. When Pete wins IA and Bernie wins NH.

This isnt drifting off topic, Biden isnt the choice of new aged generation, he is only the elders and Establishment choice, and Biden didnt want to run, and he is corrupted

The problem with your logic is that arguably a majority of Democratic primary voters either think everything has always been/is just fine or are perfectly willing to settle for breadcrumbs.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

1 more month and the Y2K people are gonna take back Democracy and Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg are gonna be the last ones standing for the Democratic nomination for Prez and Veep. When Pete wins IA and Bernie wins NH.

This isnt drifting off topic, Biden isnt the choice of new aged generation, he is only the elders and Establishment choice, and Biden didnt want to run, and he is corrupted

The problem with your logic is that arguably a majority of Democratic primary voters either think everything has always been/is just fine or are perfectly willing to settle for breadcrumbs.

You forget, that Bloomberg is Jewish too, and any ads that he runs benefit himself and Bernie.  Conservative Latinos not just AA support Biden too, but once Biden loses a state, his invulnerability will be shattered

[Bidenworth2020]

1 more month and the Y2K people are gonna take back Democracy and Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg are gonna be the last ones standing for the Democratic nomination for Prez and Veep. When Pete wins IA and Bernie wins NH.

This isnt drifting off topic, Biden isnt the choice of new aged generation, he is only the elders and Establishment choice, and Biden didnt want to run, and he is corrupted

The problem with your logic is that arguably a majority of Democratic primary voters either think everything has always been/is just fine or are perfectly willing to settle for breadcrumbs.

You forget, that Bloomberg is Jewish too, and any ads that he runs benefit himself and Bernie.  Conservative Latinos not just AA support Biden too, but once Biden loses a state, his invulnerability will be shattered

Wrong, Bernie will win Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn and win the primary, Bloomberg is a sellout. he did not even contest Iowa, but Biden will win like Thanos and be pres for 2022 midterms, when Toomey and McGinty win.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I am beginning to realize, that Bernie isnt such a bad guy after all, he is elderly, but he isnt from the Hilary or Biden school of corruption and would make a good Prez with Buttigieg as Veep😎😎😎.

Bernie gets donations from online, not from PACs which are part of the Russian and Ukraine pool of money

[Rookie Yinzer]

Joe’s team has been ON IT with his ads lately. I bet their research is telling them what I’ve seen in South Carolina. Voters are tired of Bernie’s purity tests and nitpicking over policies that will be dead if McConnell controls the Senate. They just want Trump’s ass out. One of the main reasons Kamala abandoned attacks on Biden and focused squarely on Trump during the last months of her camapign:

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1209181879460450304?s=20

[GeneralMacArthur]

OMG that clip of Biden at the end made me laugh way too hard.

Release your tax returns or SHUT. UP.

I f***ing love it.  Can't wait to hear that in a debate.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

OMG that clip of Biden at the end made me laugh way too hard.

Release your tax returns or SHUT. UP.

I f***ing love it.  Can't wait to hear that in a debate.

Uncle Joe needs a nickname for Trump such as Treasonous Trump or Colludin' Don.

[bilaps]

Joe’s team has been ON IT with his ads lately. I bet their research is telling them what I’ve seen in South Carolina. Voters are tired of Bernie’s purity tests and nitpicking over policies that will be dead if McConnell controls the Senate. They just want Trump’s ass out. One of the main reasons Kamala abandoned attacks on Biden and focused squarely on Trump during the last months of her camapign:

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1209181879460450304?s=20

LOL at thinking Biden will get some sort of bipartisan support in the Senate, how many Republicans voted for Obamacare? This ad is what you get when you actually don't have your own policies, so you have to go against opponent which isn't even his opponent yet. It reminds me of Hillary strategy to go for a win in AZ or GA and not to WI and MI. So, Biden's message is I'm not Trump and I'm not Bernie. Great stuff, it's gonna excite so many people to hand him a win in November. Bernie is on the other way ineluctable cause we tried his way in 2016 and failed. Wait.. No, he's ineluctable and will get nothing done, yet Obama and Biden did so much with a Republican Senate and a House, they confirmed so many judges and passed bold progressive laws and didn't deport immigrants at a record pace, and didn't do drone strikes at a record pace. Actually, Obama and Biden and their centrism gave us 75yr old socialist from Vermont as an almost nominee and a racist complete moron with zero experience who has the best words as a president. Good luck electing Biden in 2020. In 2024 Adolf Hitler reincarnated will probably get elected after him.