2020 New York Redistricting

[GALeftist]

https://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/ad3/Decisions/2023/CV-22-2265.pdf

Plaintiffs in Hoffman v. NYSIRC prevail on appeal; the appellate division thinks that the commission should submit new maps which go back to the legislature. On it goes to the Court of Appeals.

[wbrocks67]

https://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/ad3/Decisions/2023/CV-22-2265.pdf

Plaintiffs in Hoffman v. NYSIRC prevail on appeal; the appellate division thinks that the commission should submit new maps which go back to the legislature. On it goes to the Court of Appeals.

Do we expect it to succeed there? And if so, what's the next step, if any? Is that the last stop for this?

[GALeftist]

https://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/ad3/Decisions/2023/CV-22-2265.pdf

Plaintiffs in Hoffman v. NYSIRC prevail on appeal; the appellate division thinks that the commission should submit new maps which go back to the legislature. On it goes to the Court of Appeals.

Do we expect it to succeed there? And if so, what's the next step, if any? Is that the last stop for this?

I believe:

1. The case will almost certainly be appealed to the Court of Appeals
2. If the CoA rules against plaintiffs, the status quo maps are in place through 2030
3. If the CoA declines to take the appeal or rules in favor of the plaintiffs, it falls to the NY State Independent Redistricting Commission to draw new maps
4. The IRC submits map 1 to the legislature; the legislature either approves or rejects it
5. Importantly, if the maps continue to be rejected, the IRC *must* submit three maps to the legislature. Previously, Judge Troutman concluded that failure to evaluate three IRC maps rendered the legislature's maps unconstitutional
6. If the legislature rejects three maps, they may amend the map and pass it with a 2/3 majority. This will require substantial caucus unity but seems likelier than not if it comes to it
7. That map will likely be sued for being a partisan gerrymander

[Skill and Chance]

Between this, the Utah case, and Allen v. Milligan fallout in AL/LA/SC, the House could actually start at Lean D in 2024.

[GregTheGreat657]

I don't know why this map was overturned considering that in 2022 in NY, Dems won 56% of the vote and won 58% of the seats

[Oryxslayer]

I don't know why this map was overturned considering that in 2022 in NY, Dems won 56% of the vote and won 58% of the seats

The map is good from most measures of fair redistricting. Its not getting challenged, its the 2021/2 process which is getting challenged under procedural grounds. And ruling against that procedure would require restarting it, and to the benefit (and purpose) of the dems giving them another crack at it.

[Nyvin]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boast about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

[Torie]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boost about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

The respective state constitutions have different provisions.

[Nyvin]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boost about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

The respective state constitutions have different provisions.

Let's be real - The foundational aspects of what's going on is the same in both states, despite only one of two parties willing to the moral and fair thing at all when given the chance to, quite conveniently for Republicans.

[Sol]

What do we the regerrymander will end up looking like? I was trying to map it out the other day and it got me curious about upstate especially; do we think they'll shoot for more tossup districts (which could theoretically all fall to the GOP in a 2022 repeat) or for more safe districts while conceding a seat or two?

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boast about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

I would also like to hear left-wing posters ostensibly opposed to gerrymandering to denounce the evils of NYDP as well.

[Brittain33]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boost about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

The respective state constitutions have different provisions.

That’s a distinction without a difference. There’s no justification for Republicans who celebrate a newly Republican NC Supreme Court throwing out a good map for a gerrymander then feeling aggrieved for a newly Democratic NY Supreme Court doing the same thing, even if the legal rationales don’t 100% align.

Democrats oppose gerrymandering as a federal policy, and tolerate Dem gerrymanders when necessary to avoid getting wiped out. Republicans support gerrymandering for Republican states and oppose it for Democratic states.

[Brittain33]

I would also like to hear left-wing posters ostensibly opposed to gerrymandering to denounce the evils of NYDP as well.

I oppose gerrymandering, but until we can pass a federal ban, Democrats have to compete according to the rules we have or surrender to minority rule. It’s not hard.

[GregTheGreat657]

I don't know why this map was overturned considering that in 2022 in NY, Dems won 56% of the vote and won 58% of the seats

The map is good from most measures of fair redistricting. Its not getting challenged, its the 2021/2 process which is getting challenged under procedural grounds. And ruling against that procedure would require restarting it, and to the benefit (and purpose) of the dems giving them another crack at it.

Watch NY put another gerrymander in place

[Brittain33]

I don't know why this map was overturned considering that in 2022 in NY, Dems won 56% of the vote and won 58% of the seats

The map is good from most measures of fair redistricting. Its not getting challenged, its the 2021/2 process which is getting challenged under procedural grounds. And ruling against that procedure would require restarting it, and to the benefit (and purpose) of the dems giving them another crack at it.

Watch NY put another gerrymander in place

Indeed, and the voters lose out. It’s tragic that we can’t get federal legislation to level the playing field.

[Torie]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boost about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

The respective state constitutions have different provisions.

Let's be real - The foundational aspects of what's going on is the same in both states, despite only one of two parties willing to the moral and fair thing at all when given the chance to, quite conveniently for Republicans.

The two states actually do have different laws, so while both parties wanted to gerrymander in both places of course, they got shot down in both places, but in NC, which has no specific anti-gerrymandering provision while NYS does, the court reversed itself when the Pubs got control.
If you want to ascribe evil intent to just one of the two parties, that certainly is your privilege. My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatiguable in putting lipstick on the pigs.

[Brittain33]

My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatiguable in putting lipstick pigs.

Democrats have proposed anti-gerrymandering legislation nationally and when this issue goes to the Supreme Court, the Republican caucus favors partisan gerrymandering while the Dem caucus argues for democratic standards. You can’t handwave that away because some state parties push to their advantage. The New York Democratic Party is an ethical disaster in its own right and that hurts many Democrats in the state.

The NC Constitution has guarantees of free elections and equal protection which are violated by gerrymandering. The new Republican majority chose to ignore these enunciated constitutional rights in enshrining a Republican right to gerrymander. They were inconvenient to Republican rule.

[Nyvin]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boost about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

The respective state constitutions have different provisions.

Let's be real - The foundational aspects of what's going on is the same in both states, despite only one of two parties willing to the moral and fair thing at all when given the chance to, quite conveniently for Republicans.

The two states actually do have different laws, so while both parties wanted to gerrymander in both places of course, they got shot down in both places, but in NC, which has no specific anti-gerrymandering provision while NYS does, the court reversed itself when the Pubs got control.
If you want to ascribe evil intent to just one of the two parties, that certainly is your privilege. My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatiguable in putting lipstick pigs.

...and how exactly did that happen?

[Torie]

I'll look forward to hearing from right wing posters how unethical and immoral it is for New York Democrats to gerrymander the state while they cheer and boost about North Carolina Republicans doing the same thing.

The respective state constitutions have different provisions.

Let's be real - The foundational aspects of what's going on is the same in both states, despite only one of two parties willing to the moral and fair thing at all when given the chance to, quite conveniently for Republicans.

The two states actually do have different laws, so while both parties wanted to gerrymander in both places of course, they got shot down in both places, but in NC, which has no specific anti-gerrymandering provision while NYS does, the court reversed itself when the Pubs got control.
If you want to ascribe evil intent to just one of the two parties, that certainly is your privilege. My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatigable in putting lipstick pigs.

...and how exactly did that happen?

Over Dem opposition I believe, by referendum put on the ballot via signatures, the NYS Constitution was amended to set up a redistricting process, which inter alia has a provision that the lines shall not unduly favor one party over another - far more specific than a provision that was in an original state constitution about equal application of the laws, etc. (which is what obtained in NC).

And that is what the Dem gerrymander crashed and burned under, along with some procedural flaws. And thus in the CD map that the court drew, I actually had a small bit of influence. Isn't that special?  

[Torie]

My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatiguable in putting lipstick pigs.

Democrats have proposed anti-gerrymandering legislation nationally and when this issue goes to the Supreme Court, the Republican caucus favors partisan gerrymandering while the Dem caucus argues for democratic standards. You can’t handwave that away because some state parties push to their advantage. The New York Democratic Party is an ethical disaster in its own right and that hurts many Democrats in the state.

The NC Constitution has guarantees of free elections and equal protection which are violated by gerrymandering. The new Republican majority chose to ignore these enunciated constitutional rights in enshrining a Republican right to gerrymander. They were inconvenient to Republican rule.

Both I and SCOTUS disagree with your opinion set forth in your second paragraph for the record.

Since no anti gerrymandering law was actually passed nationally, I am not sure how the issue of un-passed legislation ever got to SCOTUS, or would get to SCOTUS. It is true that SCOTUS decided it was not in the anti-gerrymandering business because there was no justicable standard to apply (other than proportionality which had them screaming to the exits). Kagan in a dissent whimpered about how you can get rid of the worst of maps that have no algorithm other than to screw the other party. That is perhaps true, but I can draw maps that have other algorithms that seem facially reasonable, and create pretty maps to boot, that screw the other side, with one hand tied behind my back, and have done so hundreds of times. So Kagan's world view might nibble around the edges, but you would want more, much more. Amirite?  

[Brittain33]

My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatiguable in putting lipstick pigs.

The NC Constitution has guarantees of free elections and equal protection which are violated by gerrymandering. The new Republican majority chose to ignore these enunciated constitutional rights in enshrining a Republican right to gerrymander. They were inconvenient to Republican rule.

Both I and SCOTUS disagree with your opinion set forth in your second paragraph for the record.

Did the Republican majority on SCOTUS weigh in on the equal protection and free election clauses of the North Carolina Constitution not being violated by gerrymandering? I didn’t think they had, and that they tried to avoid weighing in on state constitutional issues, but refresh my memory.

[Torie]

My view is that they both are evil, and always have been, when it comes to gerrymandeing, and both are indefatiguable in putting lipstick pigs.

The NC Constitution has guarantees of free elections and equal protection which are violated by gerrymandering. The new Republican majority chose to ignore these enunciated constitutional rights in enshrining a Republican right to gerrymander. They were inconvenient to Republican rule.

Both I and SCOTUS disagree with your opinion set forth in your second paragraph for the record.

Did the Republican majority on SCOTUS weigh in on the equal protection and free election clauses of the North Carolina Constitution not being violated by gerrymandering? I didn’t think they had, and that they tried to avoid weighing in on state constitutional issues, but refresh my memory.

No, the issue was whether such vague language can under the Federal constitution empower state courts to throw maps passed by the legislature in the trash. Roberts did not want to write an opinion that defined what was too vague and what not, so he ducked after NC reversed course by finding the issue was waived by Plaintiffs. But he did not want to find mootness because he did want to stay the extreme view of SLT, that would have caused a political and Constutional crisis. So Roberts was incredibly disingenuous here, as even he would admit if you plied him with a couple of beers.

Clear as mud, right?

[Nyvin]

Over Dem opposition I believe, by referendum put on the ballot via signatures, the NYS Constitution was amended to set up a redistricting process, which inter alia has a provision that the lines shall not unduly favor one party over another - far more specific than a provision that was in an original state constitution about equal application of the laws, etc. (which is what obtained in NC).

And that is what the Dem gerrymander crashed and burned under, along with some procedural flaws. And thus in the CD map that the court drew, I actually had a small bit of influence. Isn't that special?  

Incorrect.   New York has no ballot initiative process, it was created by the state legislature.

[Torie]

Over Dem opposition I believe, by referendum put on the ballot via signatures, the NYS Constitution was amended to set up a redistricting process, which inter alia has a provision that the lines shall not unduly favor one party over another - far more specific than a provision that was in an original state constitution about equal application of the laws, etc. (which is what obtained in NC).

And that is what the Dem gerrymander crashed and burned under, along with some procedural flaws. And thus in the CD map that the court drew, I actually had a small bit of influence. Isn't that special?  

Incorrect.   New York has no ballot initiative process, it was created by the state legislature.

You might be right. Ah the glory days of Andrew Cuomo.

[Atlas Force]

https://twitter.com/qlzsu/status/1679582626791735296

[Sol]

https://twitter.com/qlzsu/status/1679582626791735296

This is the obvious D gerrymander move in the area, but you have to finish it up by giving Goldman Chinatown so you can justify it as keeping the Chinese community together.