Was the universe created in 6 24-hour periods?

[Richard]

Then how'd man record the first couple of days of creation? A time machine?

God told Moses what to write down.

[J.R. Brown]

Sure, why not

[Alcon]

I don't get why it matters. Am I missing something?

[DanielX]

Why would God need to operate in time anyways? Couldn't he just snap his (metaphorical) fingers and do everything at once?

[afleitch]

Hang on a moment. A 24 hour day is determined by the sun isn't it? But the sun wasn't created until the 4th day was it not.....so perhaps the 'days' before it were say several billion years long....

[??????????]

The bible already states the answer but everyone keeps overlooking it. "A day in the eyes of God is a thousand years to man"

[Redefeatbush04]

3 questions:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No one created God.  He has always existed.

.

That's a two-part question Richius

[phk]

God doesn't exist and if he does; he should be abolished.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hang on a moment. A 24 hour day is determined by the sun isn't it? But the sun wasn't created until the 4th day was it not.....so perhaps the 'days' before it were say several billion years long....

The bible already states the answer but everyone keeps overlooking it. "A day in the eyes of God is a thousand years to man"

you two get it, the fundies don't.

[muon2]

Why the hell could man not survive if earth stopped on its axis?

Anyway, it doesn't say that, if you're quoting it correctly.

well for starters. the earths magnetic field is supposedly caused by the earth rotating and the destruction of which would pose SIGNIFICANT biohazard. Also areas would go into deep deep deep freezes from no sunlight and other areas would get superheated. PLus the Earth is rotating at an enormous speed. If it suddenly stopped rotating trees people, anything not anchored strongly would be flown off because of the 1000+ MPH breeze of the atmosphere (which is still rotating). And yes Joshua did halt the sun according to the bible. The Bible can be wrong.

Redefea, you overstate the effects of stopping the Earth for a brief period. I did some simulation work years ago for a piece of fiction dealing with the Earth brought to a stop, so that one point would always face the Sun. Though the simulation was by no means deatiled it did take into account the most basic mechanics and thermodynamics of the atmosphere and oceans.

The Earth is spinning with a speed of about 1000 mph (1600 km/h) at the equator, but it's less than twice as much as a passenger jet cruising at 550 mph (900 km/h). A typical jet can slow to a halt on the runway from cruising speed in less than 30 minutes with no effect on the passengers. If the Earth was brought to a halt in an hour, the acceleration felt on the Earth's surface would be about the same as on a typical jet landing on a runway. The real mechanical problem is where the Earth's rotational energy would be stored until the Earth is set to spinning again.

The Earth's atmosphere and even more so it's oceans are a great buffer against sudden temperature changes. If the Earth stopped spinning and kept one face to the Sun, it would take about four days before the temperatures reached the extremes over the middle of the continents. The coldest points would then be about -140 F (-100 C) on the dark side, and the hottest spots would be about +140 F (+60 C) under the sun. The oceans would keep the mild for months before reaching extremes.

However, the Joshua story speaks of the Sun standing still for one day only. If it took an hour to stop and then to start up again nothing would fly off the Earth. Israel would see inland temperatures climb perhaps an extra 18 F (10 C) during that day before cooling again. On the dark side, most areas would be in or near the Pacific Ocean and resistant to temperature change, though Western North America in the Rockies might drop in temperature about 30 F (17 C) before recovering with the next day.

[Redefeatbush04]

Ok first of all. Where is heaven and how can you reach it by a tower. Once you reach our upper atmospheres you could not survive so why would god even worry.

God wasn't worried, He was angered at the arrogance of men to think they do not need God and that their power exceeds God's power.

God sounds like he needs some prozac. If I made a little race of people and they thought that they could build a tower to prove that they are better than me I would be laughing at how stupid they are to think they can reach me. God knows that they are not better than him....is he really that egotistic that he needs to punish them for a deed which could have caused no harm. 

[Redefeatbush04]

Why the hell could man not survive if earth stopped on its axis?

Anyway, it doesn't say that, if you're quoting it correctly.

well for starters. the earths magnetic field is supposedly caused by the earth rotating and the destruction of which would pose SIGNIFICANT biohazard. Also areas would go into deep deep deep freezes from no sunlight and other areas would get superheated. PLus the Earth is rotating at an enormous speed. If it suddenly stopped rotating trees people, anything not anchored strongly would be flown off because of the 1000+ MPH breeze of the atmosphere (which is still rotating). And yes Joshua did halt the sun according to the bible. The Bible can be wrong.

Redefea, you overstate the effects of stopping the Earth for a brief period. I did some simulation work years ago for a piece of fiction dealing with the Earth brought to a stop, so that one point would always face the Sun. Though the simulation was by no means deatiled it did take into account the most basic mechanics and thermodynamics of the atmosphere and oceans.

The Earth is spinning with a speed of about 1000 mph (1600 km/h) at the equator, but it's less than twice as much as a passenger jet cruising at 550 mph (900 km/h). A typical jet can slow to a halt on the runway from cruising speed in less than 30 minutes with no effect on the passengers. If the Earth was brought to a halt in an hour, the acceleration felt on the Earth's surface would be about the same as on a typical jet landing on a runway. The real mechanical problem is where the Earth's rotational energy would be stored until the Earth is set to spinning again.

The Earth's atmosphere and even more so it's oceans are a great buffer against sudden temperature changes. If the Earth stopped spinning and kept one face to the Sun, it would take about four days before the temperatures reached the extremes over the middle of the continents. The coldest points would then be about -140 F (-100 C) on the dark side, and the hottest spots would be about +140 F (+60 C) under the sun. The oceans would keep the mild for months before reaching extremes.

However, the Joshua story speaks of the Sun standing still for one day only. If it took an hour to stop and then to start up again nothing would fly off the Earth. Israel would see inland temperatures climb perhaps an extra 18 F (10 C) during that day before cooling again. On the dark side, most areas would be in or near the Pacific Ocean and resistant to temperature change, though Western North America in the Rockies might drop in temperature about 30 F (17 C) before recovering with the next day.

You are right about the temparatures. It would take time. You are wrong about the wind. Planes stop because of air resistance. This is common sense. Note that in my post I say that if it stopped suddenly their would be 1000 MPH winds (because the earth rotates at that speed). If it stopped in 1/2 hour it would not be as extreme (perhaps 200 MPH) which while not devastating, would still cause a catastrophic loss of life. Picture the strongest hurricane we have ever had, striking everywhere on earth at the same time, and having only primitive shelter. The most significant threat may not even be the wind. It may be the destruction of the magnetic field. I also failed to mention the geological effects. There would be many many earthquakes as the tectonic plates colide. Volcanic activity would significantly increase to the point where ashes may cover the sun for years to come. Oh yeah. And they might have needed a Tsunami relief fund (and that isn't from the earthquakes.)

[Storebought]

Ok first of all. Where is heaven and how can you reach it by a tower. Once you reach our upper atmospheres you could not survive so why would god even worry.

God wasn't worried, He was angered at the arrogance of men to think they do not need God and that their power exceeds God's power.

God sounds like he needs some prozac. If I made a little race of people and they thought that they could build a tower to prove that they are better than me I would be laughing at how stupid they are to think they can reach me. God knows that they are not better than him....is he really that egotistic that he needs to punish them for a deed which could have caused no harm. 

This is one of the few Old Testament passages that makes sense.

Those evil people built their ziggurat (a more descriptive word than 'tower', or, ugh, 'ladder') so that they could enter Heaven without facing God first (through death and judgement). Not to mention, those people, after building their sky-high ziggurat of mud and slime, would then idiotically proclaim to themselves, "Look at all of what we've done! We don't need no stinkin' god no more." At lot like secular humanists today in that regard.

God made Himself explicitly clear when He said that only His covenant people, and the other nations who respected them, could enter heaven.

[Redefeatbush04]

Ok first of all. Where is heaven and how can you reach it by a tower. Once you reach our upper atmospheres you could not survive so why would god even worry.

God wasn't worried, He was angered at the arrogance of men to think they do not need God and that their power exceeds God's power.

God sounds like he needs some prozac. If I made a little race of people and they thought that they could build a tower to prove that they are better than me I would be laughing at how stupid they are to think they can reach me. God knows that they are not better than him....is he really that egotistic that he needs to punish them for a deed which could have caused no harm. 

This is one of the few Old Testament passages that makes sense.

Those evil people built their ziggurat (a more descriptive word than 'tower', or, ugh, 'ladder') so that they could enter Heaven without facing God first (through death and judgement). Not to mention, those people, after building their sky-high ziggurat of mud and slime, would then idiotically proclaim to themselves, "Look at all of what we've done! We don't need no stinkin' god no more." At lot like secular humanists today in that regard.

God made Himself explicitly clear when He said that only His covenant people, and the other nations who respected them, could enter heaven.

So what! Let them think that they don't need God. God is all-powerfull....it shouldn't bother him/her/it.

[Gabu]

Ok first of all. Where is heaven and how can you reach it by a tower. Once you reach our upper atmospheres you could not survive so why would god even worry.

God wasn't worried, He was angered at the arrogance of men to think they do not need God and that their power exceeds God's power.

God sounds like he needs some prozac. If I made a little race of people and they thought that they could build a tower to prove that they are better than me I would be laughing at how stupid they are to think they can reach me. God knows that they are not better than him....is he really that egotistic that he needs to punish them for a deed which could have caused no harm. 

This is one of the few Old Testament passages that makes sense.

Those evil people built their ziggurat (a more descriptive word than 'tower', or, ugh, 'ladder') so that they could enter Heaven without facing God first (through death and judgement). Not to mention, those people, after building their sky-high ziggurat of mud and slime, would then idiotically proclaim to themselves, "Look at all of what we've done! We don't need no stinkin' god no more." At lot like secular humanists today in that regard.

God made Himself explicitly clear when He said that only His covenant people, and the other nations who respected them, could enter heaven.

I didn't really want to get into this argument as religious debates usually go nowhere, but I'll bite.

Couldn't God just have made it so that they didn't find heaven (which they wouldn't have), proving in a much easier manner that they can't outdo God?

[Storebought]

Ok first of all. Where is heaven and how can you reach it by a tower. Once you reach our upper atmospheres you could not survive so why would god even worry.

God wasn't worried, He was angered at the arrogance of men to think they do not need God and that their power exceeds God's power.

God sounds like he needs some prozac. If I made a little race of people and they thought that they could build a tower to prove that they are better than me I would be laughing at how stupid they are to think they can reach me. God knows that they are not better than him....is he really that egotistic that he needs to punish them for a deed which could have caused no harm. 

This is one of the few Old Testament passages that makes sense.

Those evil people built their ziggurat (a more descriptive word than 'tower', or, ugh, 'ladder') so that they could enter Heaven without facing God first (through death and judgement). Not to mention, those people, after building their sky-high ziggurat of mud and slime, would then idiotically proclaim to themselves, "Look at all of what we've done! We don't need no stinkin' god no more." At lot like secular humanists today in that regard.

God made Himself explicitly clear when He said that only His covenant people, and the other nations who respected them, could enter heaven.

I didn't really want to get into this argument as religious debates usually go nowhere, but I'll bite.

Couldn't God just have made it so that they didn't find heaven (which they wouldn't have), proving in a much easier manner that they can't outdo God?

True, religious debates often end up with useless dogma (as opposed to insightful Biblical commentary). Which is why I avoid those arguments as well.

Mankind is born with a desire to reenter paradise (at least in the Old Testament). Which is why they'd do anything to recreate it here on Earth, foolish as that is.

More importantly: would you want to live among a group where most people think they are gods, like those ziggurat builders? Or, worse, live in a country where one totalitarian is convinced he is god?

[WMS]

Or, worse, live in a country where one totalitarian is convinced he is god?

As in, say, Turkmenistan?

[muon2]

Why the hell could man not survive if earth stopped on its axis?

Anyway, it doesn't say that, if you're quoting it correctly.

well for starters. the earths magnetic field is supposedly caused by the earth rotating and the destruction of which would pose SIGNIFICANT biohazard. Also areas would go into deep deep deep freezes from no sunlight and other areas would get superheated. PLus the Earth is rotating at an enormous speed. If it suddenly stopped rotating trees people, anything not anchored strongly would be flown off because of the 1000+ MPH breeze of the atmosphere (which is still rotating). And yes Joshua did halt the sun according to the bible. The Bible can be wrong.

Redefea, you overstate the effects of stopping the Earth for a brief period. I did some simulation work years ago for a piece of fiction dealing with the Earth brought to a stop, so that one point would always face the Sun. Though the simulation was by no means deatiled it did take into account the most basic mechanics and thermodynamics of the atmosphere and oceans.

The Earth is spinning with a speed of about 1000 mph (1600 km/h) at the equator, but it's less than twice as much as a passenger jet cruising at 550 mph (900 km/h). A typical jet can slow to a halt on the runway from cruising speed in less than 30 minutes with no effect on the passengers. If the Earth was brought to a halt in an hour, the acceleration felt on the Earth's surface would be about the same as on a typical jet landing on a runway. The real mechanical problem is where the Earth's rotational energy would be stored until the Earth is set to spinning again.

The Earth's atmosphere and even more so it's oceans are a great buffer against sudden temperature changes. If the Earth stopped spinning and kept one face to the Sun, it would take about four days before the temperatures reached the extremes over the middle of the continents. The coldest points would then be about -140 F (-100 C) on the dark side, and the hottest spots would be about +140 F (+60 C) under the sun. The oceans would keep the mild for months before reaching extremes.

However, the Joshua story speaks of the Sun standing still for one day only. If it took an hour to stop and then to start up again nothing would fly off the Earth. Israel would see inland temperatures climb perhaps an extra 18 F (10 C) during that day before cooling again. On the dark side, most areas would be in or near the Pacific Ocean and resistant to temperature change, though Western North America in the Rockies might drop in temperature about 30 F (17 C) before recovering with the next day.

You are right about the temparatures. It would take time. You are wrong about the wind. Planes stop because of air resistance. This is common sense. Note that in my post I say that if it stopped suddenly their would be 1000 MPH winds (because the earth rotates at that speed). If it stopped in 1/2 hour it would not be as extreme (perhaps 200 MPH) which while not devastating, would still cause a catastrophic loss of life. Picture the strongest hurricane we have ever had, striking everywhere on earth at the same time, and having only primitive shelter. The most significant threat may not even be the wind. It may be the destruction of the magnetic field. I also failed to mention the geological effects. There would be many many earthquakes as the tectonic plates colide. Volcanic activity would significantly increase to the point where ashes may cover the sun for years to come. Oh yeah. And they might have needed a Tsunami relief fund (and that isn't from the earthquakes.)

Check the mechanics of wind. It's acceleration, not the velocity that matters most. First, the acceleration needed to slow the air down with the Earth over an hour is (1000 mph)/hour = 0.12 m/s/s. This is about 1/80 of a g (the acceleration of gravity).

Next let's look at friction. The same friction between the skin of an airplane and the air that you cite to slow a jet also exists beteen the ground and the wind to slow the wind. Because the ground is rough, the effect is greater for the ground. The ground friction can defintiely provide an acceleration equal to 1/80 g. At an elevation of 700 m (2000 ft) the frictional effect is largely missing, but no structures are so tall as to notice.

Finally note that the natural state of the air would be at rest with respect to space if not driven by a force. The Earth's rotation provides the friction from the ground to cause the wind to spin. This is like rotating a glass of liquid on a turntable and observing that the contents start to rotate with the glass. Remove the rotation and the liquid stops spinning due to the friction of the sides. The atmosphere will act the same way and slow down to its preferred state, held to the Earth by gravity.

The real wind effect to worry about is from the transition from warm to cold between the day and night sides. However, since the stoppage is only for a day, the strongest winds driven by the temperature gradient will not have time to set up.

[phk]

Why are you arguing over a fairy tale?

[Redefeatbush04]

Today in religion class we had a word search for extra credit. We were given (I dunno 4 minutes) to find as many of the 12 words as we could find. I easily found the first 11, but when the time ran out, I still had not found the last word. That word was faith. It kind of made me think about my beliefs. Are they wrong? Is it even possible for someone who admits they don't know to be wrong? Perhaps their is a God but regardless it is something that neither me nor you nor anyone can comprehend, prove, or explain. Arguing over the actions of God is quite stupid because those who don't think he did it are like: "why do you think that". And those who argue that he did those actions cannot prove that he did them and their only reasoning is this strange little thing called faith. Faith is defined as "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence". So what they are saying is they belive what they believe, they don't have a reason for it, they just do. I have always been a skeptic of blind faith and random guesses. I could say that the earth was created by the cows, until we became intelligent and then killed off all the smart cows leaving only the dumb ones to reproduce and populate the earth.  No one can prove me wrong. But I have faith that it is true. Something is telling me that an answer is out there ......somewhere.....just waiting..... .we mustn't close our mind off to new ideas. It is ok to have faith but it doesn't mean we have to ignore the possibility that our faith is wrong.

[muon2]

And to whoever said that the sun is required for our notion of a day, this is also incorrect. A day is simply a single rotation of the Earth on its own axis.

Technically the sun is required to define the day. We define a day in terms of the time it takes for the earth to rotate such that the same line of longitude is directly towards the sun.   Because the earth revolves around the sun, the earth doesn't line up with the sun after each complete rotation.

The day can be defined in terms of one complete rotation, orienting the earth the same way in space. Its called the sidereal day and is used in astronomy.

[Hitchabrut]

Yes