North Carolina GOP (The Gift That Keeps On Giving): NCGOP Chair Indicted

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

When NC GOP loses their super majority in November, they're then going to lose their gerrymandered districts in 2020. NC GOP on suicide watch.

NCGOP is finished

It better be! It deserves a Disney villain death.

like scar when the hyenas eat him alive

The NC GOP has long since crossed the line into cliche cartoon villainy.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Voted Tuesday Afternoon:
Dem for State Senate/State House/Supreme Court and No on the judicial and election boards amendments.



I voted Republican for most everything else.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Voted Tuesday Afternoon:
Dem for State Senate/State House/Supreme Court and No on the judicial and election boards amendments.



I voted Republican for most everything else.

You did the right thing for your state - NCGOP needs to be checked

The NCGOP needs to be nuked, it is out there on Pluto.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Ugh, I come here thinking I'm finally the first one to post a poll, and here it already is, posted hours ago lmbo. This just reminds me why I love this forum so much. For all the crap Atlas gets, it's not easy to find another forum out there dedicated to political data but also highly active too. I don't think another one exists.

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Anyway, this is amazing. I was deeply skeptical that the judicial selection and election board amendments would fail, given how innocuous they seem to the average voter, but word seems to be out that they are power grabs. Even if just the judicial selection amendment failed, that would still be a massive win. It means no court-packing and the state supreme court goes 5 - 2 Democratic.

If that happens, the legislative lame duck period is going to be interesting. Can't wait to see how Republicans plan to lash out then. Maybe they can pass a bill defunding coffee machines in the Governor's office?

Can you imagine the rage when the NCSC strikes down all of their redistricting maps in 2021, forcing them to be drawn by a court?

Pennsylvania 2.0. Karma is a bitch.

I couldn't get lucky enough for that to happen here. Most of the best maps in effect right now, were drawn by the courts.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The Republicans were all for VRA districts in the 1990's, just as they were all for expanding black voting in the 1960's. The Southern Strategy was not about becoming the Segregationists, it was about displacing them and forcing their voters to become Republicans. You did this through blacks taking over the local Democratic Parties. You need to have blacks voting and voting as Democrats to facilitate this in the 1960's and 1970's. By the 1990's it had moved to the districts and these early court rulings and the Bush 41 Justice Department were the ones that pushed the matter. This would cause the rest of the delegations to shift ever more Republican and become polarized between white Republicans and black Democrats.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also state boiler is right. The NC Democrats were just awful, plain and simple. Having moved here in the 2000s, I didn't realize that the GOP were just as awful as they were so I foolishly thought that the GOP taking power would change things.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Laughs. Lived in North Carolina all my life up until 2012. Democrats ran the state continuously for more or less 130 years essentially unchallenged.

This sounds a lot like the zany claim that "Democrats were the party of slavery". Yes, in the 1860s. That was a long time ago.

Static parties is false yes, but party flip theory is also bullcrap. Especially in a state like NC. You can make a case that in some states, Segregationists went from being Democrats to Republicans over night like in say South Carolina, but not here.

North Carolina is a completely different kettle of fish. NC for one was a border state and one of the last to secede, it arguably only seceded because VA seceded and it was surrounded by secessionist territory. After the war, unlike the Deep South where Democrats would routinely get 80% or 90% of the vote, NC was much closer. The unionist mountain counties of the west voted Republican and many of the surrounding areas had much softer Democratic margins, similar to the piedmont regions of VA and other places where 50% margins for the GOP interchanged with 50% margins for the Democrats. The only solid part of NC was Eastern NC.

Yes there were two groups that did flip, African Americans gained the right to vote and became Democrats and the Jessecrats (led by Jesse Helms) flipped the Piedmont region to being solid Republican from being tied. Republicans also made gains in Charlotte and Raleigh metros creating the East West divide that defined the state's politics on the state level as late as the 2000s. But in the rest of the state and in terms of the Democratic establishment, their was no massive flip of parties or anything and the fact that the Republicans couldn't take and hold the legislature until 2010 is proof of that. It took the New Deal Democrats dying off to flip the state legislature.

Democrats very slowly declined in the rural areas and as state boiler said, the NC Democrats did what they had to do to cling to power. They saw what happened in 1964 and other elections where Goldwater caused GOP slates to win because of straight ticket voting. So they created the ballot he talked about which meant that people could vote Nixon, Reagan, Bush and still vote straight Democratic down ballot. This was was how Bush won NC by double digits and at the same time Easley won by almost the same margin. They resorted to gerrymandering, using black voters to prop up flailing white Democratic districts, at the expense of reducing minority representation in the state legislature and Congress. They used corruption on an extensive level to maintain power.

And yes Democrats had it out for vocational education as state boiler said. There was this sense that Democrats were beholden to the big three Universities and that if you weren't planning to go to a college they didn't give a crap about you. In the 2000s, Republicans were actually seen as the more reasonable ones on education. That didn't change until the budget cuts of the early 2010s pushed by the newly GOP state legislature.

If that tit for tat rule applied, can you imagine what the cheating, lying, bribing GOP would deserve next time the Dems take over? That alone should give you pause before defending the Dowlesses of the world.

That is already happening. The current excess of the GOP is motivated by a desire to get back at the Dems for their treatment of the GOP For 100 years. And once the Democrats return to power they will indeed do the same stuff they did before. There are no good guys in this state.

That is why my votes are strategic. You cannot trust either side to have complete control of this state.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Laughs. Lived in North Carolina all my life up until 2012. Democrats ran the state continuously for more or less 130 years essentially unchallenged.

This sounds a lot like the zany claim that "Democrats were the party of slavery". Yes, in the 1860s. That was a long time ago.

Static parties is false yes, but party flip theory is also bullcrap. Especially in a state like NC. You can make a case that in some states, Segregationists went from being Democrats to Republicans over night like in say South Carolina, but not here.

North Carolina is a completely different kettle of fish. NC for one was a border state and one of the last to secede, it arguably only seceded because VA seceded and it was surrounded by secessionist territory. After the war, unlike the Deep South where Democrats would routinely get 80% or 90% of the vote, NC was much closer. The unionist mountain counties of the west voted Republican and many of the surrounding areas had much softer Democratic margins, similar to the piedmont regions of VA and other places where 50% margins for the GOP interchanged with 50% margins for the Democrats. The only solid part of NC was Eastern NC.

Yes there were two groups that did flip, African Americans gained the right to vote and became Democrats and the Jessecrats (led by Jesse Helms) flipped the Piedmont region to being solid Republican from being tied. Republicans also made gains in Charlotte and Raleigh metros creating the East West divide that defined the state's politics on the state level as late as the 2000s. But in the rest of the state and in terms of the Democratic establishment, their was no massive flip of parties or anything and the fact that the Republicans couldn't take and hold the legislature until 2010 is proof of that. It took the New Deal Democrats dying off to flip the state legislature.

Democrats very slowly declined in the rural areas and as state boiler said, the NC Democrats did what they had to do to cling to power. They saw what happened in 1964 and other elections where Goldwater caused GOP slates to win because of straight ticket voting. So they created the ballot he talked about which meant that people could vote Nixon, Reagan, Bush and still vote straight Democratic down ballot. This was was how Bush won NC by double digits and at the same time Easley won by almost the same margin. They resorted to gerrymandering, using black voters to prop up flailing white Democratic districts, at the expense of reducing minority representation in the state legislature and Congress. They used corruption on an extensive level to maintain power.

And yes Democrats had it out for vocational education as state boiler said. There was this sense that Democrats were beholden to the big three Universities and that if you weren't planning to go to a college they didn't give a crap about you. In the 2000s, Republicans were actually seen as the more reasonable ones on education. That didn't change until the budget cuts of the early 2010s pushed by the newly GOP state legislature.

If that tit for tat rule applied, can you imagine what the cheating, lying, bribing GOP would deserve next time the Dems take over? That alone should give you pause before defending the Dowlesses of the world.

That is already happening. The current excess of the GOP is motivated by a desire to get back at the Dems for their treatment of the GOP For 100 years. And once the Democrats return to power they will indeed do the same stuff they did before. There are no good guys in this state.

That is why my votes are strategic. You cannot trust either side to have complete control of this state.

I agree with you, up to a point though. I think the part you missed, in part because it is kinda going under the rader, is the transformation of the southern democratic parties. With the advent of race-line voting with Obama, and then the GOP gerrymanders of the 2010s, the Southern Democrats are dead. Those people who worshipped the ideology of power unquestioningly were replaced by caucuses forced to be majority black with hyper-liberal College seat dems and other minorities as supplemental. This cataclysmic event arguably brought southern democratic parties into line with the rest of the national democrats. Like, look at 2018. The only 'southern dem' who got on a significant major ticket were Bresden and Nelson, and that was because one lacked competition and the other was an incumbent. You had Abrams and Gillum, not Crist and Carter. And even as the nation gave the dems a big wave, rural southern white dems still lost their state legislative seats that they had somehow held in 2014. The places where these parties are growing similarly reflect this policy changes - they are all areas being fed by non-southerns migrating south like Atlanta, the Triangle, NOVA, and all the Texas cities.

I know you said that it feels like the criminal suddenly finding god..but well they kinda have if we look to what the VA dems are doing. And its because their repentance moment was the equivalent of losing an arm and a leg.

I didn't say that, State boiler did.

Also are you implying that progressive and minority based state Democratic parties don't engage in corruption, gerrymandering etc?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Activists now prepare to move against the Congressional Map, though they would have to move fast with the  primaries approaching.

Why didn't they do them both at the same time?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I wonder if they will attempt to strike down the state legislature map in PA too? I certainly hope so. Dems won by 11 points and still can't get a majority.

The problem that PA dems have is Philly. The Philly burbs have helped a bit, but the Democrats used to be able to contest for the legislature by controlling Western PA rural seats. The gerrymandering being removed will probably reduce the differential, but the Democrats have way to many seats that go 80% and 90% Democratic.

It would require a competitiveness gerrymander that would turn the state into spaghetti strips.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Bought and paid for is the best term that comes to mind.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The New York map is rather decent, as is the PA map with a few minor quibbles, so I am hopeful if he is selected.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The courts need to draw the map themselves.