Parliamentary Bicameralism (Discussion Open)

[Devilman88]

I'm sorry, I'll do better next time.

[Devilman88]

[X] Option 1
[  ] Option 2
[  ] NOTA (no change)

[Devilman88]

Since most of you seem to be supporting Option 1, I'll point out some of my problems with it.

Five-member Senate elections every six months? Really? Twice a year?!?! No, this is an elections game and this is unacceptable. And don't think covert attempts to abolish regional Senate seats is going unnoticed.

Perhaps some will counter with the fact that we have Representative elections every two months. But 15 seats? Didn't we only have like, 6 candidates for Senate in December? Maybe 7 or so last April? What makes you people think there will actually be 15 people willing to run? What makes you think they'll be at all active? But more importantly, what makes you think a good number more than 15 will run? We would need at least say, 20 or so candidates every two months to make the elections competitive, fun, and interesting, and I'm telling you right now that I don't think that is going to happen.

Well, first off, I too think six month is a long time, but whatever. Also in April the parties were only willing to run a few members so that the vote wouldn't split each other. Also Mr. President, how about you give us some good ideas and stop putting down all the ideas. It isn't like you are that active in Atlasia anyways.

[Devilman88]

I make a motion that we vote to reduce the regions to three and rewrite Article I for three regions, not five. We can work out the details of the regions later on.

[Devilman88]

I make a motion that we vote to reduce the regions to three and rewrite Article I for three regions, not five. We can work out the details of the regions later on.

I say we move on to the next Article and work out the regions at the end. The best idea is to get all the proposals done, vote which one we want, and then work out the miscellaneous issues that may prove contentious. No reason to go through these fights over and over for each proposal.

Ok, just trying to get this active. What is the next Article?

[Devilman88]

Aye

[Devilman88]

FTR: Yes

The actual system is good.

The only thing who should be discussed is who nominate judges?

And their confirmation. Perhaps another way we can add prestige to the Senate.

That is a great idea, giving that power to the senate but not the house makes the Senate more powerful then the House.

[Devilman88]

Looks very good to me.

[Devilman88]

Why not just give the President the tie breaking power? I see no reason to waste a position on a Vice President.

Also, I don't like the section about the Game Moderator, I think if it's a Presidential appointment then it should remain a Presidential responsibility to remove the GM from office.

I agree with this.

[Devilman88]

Aye on both

[Devilman88]

President Final Vote Tally
Aye = 8
Nay = 3
Abstain = 1

Court Final Vote Tally
Aye = 13
Nay = 0

Thank you to all those who voted, although I am disappointed by the growing number of delegates that seem to be drifting away from the Convention.

That is because this whole Convention is taking way to long.

[Devilman88]

President Final Vote Tally
Aye = 8
Nay = 3
Abstain = 1

Court Final Vote Tally
Aye = 13
Nay = 0

Thank you to all those who voted, although I am disappointed by the growing number of delegates that seem to be drifting away from the Convention.

That is because this whole Convention is taking way to long.

This is a Convention to draft a Constitution. In case you didn't know, that's a major task and it's not an easy thing to do.

I understand that, I should have said picking one of the three types of Goverments are taking a long time.

[Devilman88]

What is next?

[Devilman88]

What is next?

Bill of rights, Constitutional amendments, Regions, Candidacy and office holding rules and Continuity of government.

The nuts and bolts.

Do you want them in that order?

[Devilman88]

Article V: Bill of Rights
Same as Article VI

Article VI: (Don't know what to name it)

Section 1: Amendment Procedure
The Congress(Senate and House), whenever two-thirds of its number shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this Constitution when ratified by a two-thirds of the People voting in public polls in two-thirds of the Regions. Such votes shall last for exactly one week and shall be administered by the Head of the Region or other officer as the Law of the Region may provide. Citizens will cast their vote by public post.

 Section 2: New Convention
Upon application of the citizens of a majority of the Regions, the President, with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall call a Constitutional Convention to amend or replace this Constitution. The Convention shall be constituted under regulations determined by the Senate. Such amendments or the replacement proposed by the Convention shall become operative when ratified by two-thirds of the Convention and the citizens of two-thrids of the Regions, in a public poll administered by the Head of the Region or other officer as Regional Law may provide. All public polls mandated under this section shall be via public post and shall last for exactly one week.


Article VII: Regions

Section 1: Regional Government
1. The Regions may elect a Governor as chief executive officer, and may establish other executive posts as they wish, however no executive member may be elected for a term of more than six months.
2. A Region may establish a legislature for itself to make proper laws and electoral procedures.
3. A Region may establish a judiciary for itself; However, if they choose not to, the federal Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all election disputes, but only insofar as Regional Law may provide.
4. Regions are autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves and their elections as they wish, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution.

Section 2: Regional Boundaries
1. The Regions shall be draw up by the Senate of Atlasia and approved by the House of Atlasia.
2. The Senate may redraw the Regional Boundaries in the months of January and July without consent of the Regions, any other time consent is required by the region(s) being changed.
3. In the event that a new State joins the Republic of Atlasia, the Senate may apportion this State to a Region via proper legislation, however, the State shall still be liable to all the provisions of this Article.
 

Section 3: Supremacy Clause and Restriction on Federal Government
This Constitution and the Laws of the Republic of Atlasia which shall be made in Pursuance thereof, shall be the Supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every Region shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or Laws of any Region to the contrary notwithstanding.
The powers not delegated to the Republic of Atlasia by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the Regions, are reserved to the Regions respectively, or to the people.

[Devilman88]

It is me or the Clause 14 of the Bill of Rights give the right to vote to children?

Yes, because alot of the people are under the age of 18. Duh

[Devilman88]

It is me or the Clause 14 of the Bill of Rights give the right to vote to children?

Yes, because alot of the people are under the age of 18. Duh

I assume than we play characters who are over 18.

Most forum based government sims don't have age limits, because it really don't matter.

[Devilman88]

Aye on all three.

[Devilman88]

Regions should be abolished.

I still don't understand what harm the regions do. At best they provide a training ground for new members. At worst? They are inactive and boring. You don't gain anything by their abolition.

I don't think it's a good idea to have an entire section of the game that is "inactive and boring."

That is worst case. We clearly see that some regions are not inactive and provide a vibrant training ground for new recruits. Look at how the Mideast has continued (despite your grim warnings months ago) to pump out active users. I went from Assembly member to Senator and now Dan or Persepolis will join me on that same track.

And I continue to insist that you would have been active anyway, especially if we created compensatory positions to deal somewhat with the decrease in positions brought about by the abolition of regions.

But it didn't hurt to have. Worst case we will see the regions are useless and remove them by amendment.

You know that will never happen

Not true, if I see the need to get rid of the regions, I would put the amendment myself in the senate.

[Devilman88]

I have a question, in a parliamentary system do all the Senate and house members have to be elected on the same day?

[Devilman88]

I have a question, in a parliamentary system do all the Senate and house members have to be elected on the same day?

Absolutely not, in France they don't. But usually yes, since that is cheaper and less complicated.

Well, what I was thinking

1. (I know that may not be popular) Get rid of the Regions.
2. Move the Senate up to 10 members, all at large seats, elected 5 at a time. Each senate term is 4 months. So we can say:

Senate A Seats are elected: Jan, May, Sept
Senate B Seats are elected: Feb, June, Oct

3. Move the House to 16 seats, elected 8 at a time. Each House term is 2 months. Four are elected by districts and four at-large.

House At-large/district A Seats are elected: Jan, March, May, July, Sept, Nov
House At-large/district B Seats are elected: Feb, April, June, Aug, Oct, Dec

4. The PM and President terms are 4 months, PM elected by Congress and President is elected by the citizens:

PM/President elected: March, July, Nov


Just an idea. We would have at elections every month. Of course, the bussines in the House and Senate would never stop.

[Devilman88]

Aye/Nay