PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[Progressive Pessimist]

Dang, I was hoping to avoid a divisive primary. My issue is honestly that I like both Fetterman and Kenyatta so much that I want to vote for both. I really wish Kenyatta had run for LG or something instead. Still with Fetterman for the moment, but I really like both, so my mind isn't completely made up yet.

I'm right there with you. I like both and can't decide yet.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

No matter how you feel about Kenyatta, you have to appreciate the gift of someone who's willing to con Blue MAGA into supporting a progressive.

lol it's amazing that somebody who was a literal Biden delegate to the DNC and enrosde biden on day 1 is getting so much rose twitter support.

[morgieb]

Lamb would be a terrible, terrible choice. If 2020 taught us anything it's that stand for nothing moderates go down like a lead balloon. Say what you will about Kenyatta, he clearly isn't a moderate hero. Ditto Cartwright.

[Morning in Atlas]

No matter how you feel about Kenyatta, you have to appreciate the gift of someone who's willing to con Blue MAGA into supporting a progressive.

lol it's amazing that somebody who was a literal Biden delegate to the DNC and enrosde biden on day 1 is getting so much rose twitter support.

Most people on Atlas can see beyond fealty to Bernie. Even then most of the Donut crap he posted was from 2016-2017 and he didn't really attack Bernie in 2020.

I'm more concerned about where he stands on the issues and he's very good.

[ctherainbow]

Honestly, I just assumed she was African-American w/o double-checking; that was clearly prejudice on my part.  Not much to do but admit the mistake and do better going forward

Well, I can’t speak for her, but from what I know of Nina, she wouldn’t hold it against you, she’s a sweetheart.  Her backstory as an immigrant is really compelling; if you have some free time, you might want to check out her bio.

Speaking of Nina, I wonder if she’ll run for anything this cycle, or maybe go for PA Dems Chair?  I’m not sure she could successfully run for Senate after her loss to DeFoor, but she could make a play for the PA Dems; Nancy Mills is not the most popular lady at the moment.

[smoltchanov]

Considering Pennsylvania hasn't had a black statewide politican of prominence in a long time (if ever? besides like Auditor General or something), this would be huge For Kenyatta. That could work in his favor.

Don't get the hype about Cartwright. Yeah, he did great in his district, but that's more reason for him to STAY there, b/c we'd lose that seat then if he'd lose. And I don't see Cartwright performing any different than someone like Lamb statewide. People may hate Lamb here for some reason, but PA is still very much a tossup, so I think he'd be an Ossoff-type statewide candidate (and I mean that in a good way)

I'm still not convinced Lamb will jump in though. Would make sense for him to wait for Attorney General, no?

I'm gonna be honest, I'd rather lose with Fetterman, Cartwright, or Kenyatta than win with Lamb. I cannot handle another Sinema sabotaging the Democratic agenda at every opportunity for "bipartisanship" points back home.

Or we could have a Republican that votes against 1% of everything good. So much worse than Lamb voting for 80% of everything good.

+101. I really hate idiots, who are ready to lose "for the sake of ideological purity"...  Very strongly....

[wesmoorenerd]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

[smoltchanov]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

That's why no prominent NAACP has stepped forth and condemned Fetterman, they know Ayenetta is gonna lose the nomination

We nominated McGinty instead of Sestak and we still got Toomey, with the help of Bloomberg running ads on his behalf due to gun control

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Not taking a very firm stance either way on Kenyatta at the moment, but it's important to note Obama-tier figures only come once in a generation.

[smoltchanov]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Pennsylvania is substantislly more republican, then Illinois, and you know that. Biden, who  was born there (Scranton, not Philly...), is white, straight, and so on, won it by relatively small margin... So, your irony is useless here..

[tjstarling]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Obama ran in very blue Illinois against freaking Alan Keyes. Something tells me Kenyatta won’t have that luxury in a much less blue PA. He would be an incredible risky, and I would say stupid, nominee in a likely 2022 election environment. “But he’s progressive and can boost youth an minority turnout” (just like Andrew Gilliam who did neither of those things in a much better political environment). I’ll take Fetterman who is “progressive” but maybe can con enough people with the Everyman schtick or some moderate hero who can win. People need to realize issue positions don’t mean squat to voters who don’t live in a bubble online. Style, winning, and power are all that matter in politics.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Pennsylvania is substantislly more republican, then Illinois, and you know that. Biden, who  was born there (Scranton, not Philly...), is white, straight, and so on, won it by relatively small margin... So, your irony is useless here..

It's a shame he never ran for president so we'll never know how we he performed in Pennsylvania. He would have probably lost by 10 points if he had.

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Obama ran in very blue Illinois against freaking Alan Keyes. Something tells me Kenyatta won’t have that luxury in a much less blue PA. He would be an incredible risky, and I would say stupid, nominee in a likely 2022 election environment. “But he’s progressive and can boost youth an minority turnout” (just like Andrew Gilliam who did neither of those things in a much better political environment). I’ll take Fetterman who is “progressive” but maybe can con enough people with the Everyman schtick or some moderate hero who can win. People need to realize issue positions don’t mean squat to voters who don’t live in a bubble online. Style, winning, and power are all that matter in politics.

Yeah, he ran a race anywhere except a deep blue stronghold, all those rural democrats would have never voted for him. Unlike Hillary Clinton who would have won the state in a landslide through #populism.

[smoltchanov]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Pennsylvania is substantislly more republican, then Illinois, and you know that. Biden, who  was born there (Scranton, not Philly...), is white, straight, and so on, won it by relatively small margin... So, your irony is useless here..

It's a shame he never ran for president so we'll never know how we he performed in Pennsylvania. He would have probably lost by 10 points if he had.

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Obama ran in very blue Illinois against freaking Alan Keyes. Something tells me Kenyatta won’t have that luxury in a much less blue PA. He would be an incredible risky, and I would say stupid, nominee in a likely 2022 election environment. “But he’s progressive and can boost youth an minority turnout” (just like Andrew Gilliam who did neither of those things in a much better political environment). I’ll take Fetterman who is “progressive” but maybe can con enough people with the Everyman schtick or some moderate hero who can win. People need to realize issue positions don’t mean squat to voters who don’t live in a bubble online. Style, winning, and power are all that matter in politics.

Yeah, he ran a race anywhere except a deep blue stronghold, all those rural democrats would have never voted for him. Unlike Hillary Clinton who would have won the state in a landslide through #populism.

It's interesting to see utter lack of REAL arguments, but lot of desire to argue even knowing that other side is righ, and you are not...

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Pennsylvania is substantislly more republican, then Illinois, and you know that. Biden, who  was born there (Scranton, not Philly...), is white, straight, and so on, won it by relatively small margin... So, your irony is useless here..

It's a shame he never ran for president so we'll never know how we he performed in Pennsylvania. He would have probably lost by 10 points if he had.

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Obama ran in very blue Illinois against freaking Alan Keyes. Something tells me Kenyatta won’t have that luxury in a much less blue PA. He would be an incredible risky, and I would say stupid, nominee in a likely 2022 election environment. “But he’s progressive and can boost youth an minority turnout” (just like Andrew Gilliam who did neither of those things in a much better political environment). I’ll take Fetterman who is “progressive” but maybe can con enough people with the Everyman schtick or some moderate hero who can win. People need to realize issue positions don’t mean squat to voters who don’t live in a bubble online. Style, winning, and power are all that matter in politics.

Yeah, he ran a race anywhere except a deep blue stronghold, all those rural democrats would have never voted for him. Unlike Hillary Clinton who would have won the state in a landslide through #populism.

It's interesting to see utter lack of REAL arguments, but lot of desire to argue even knowing that other side is righ, and you are not...

Your argument is that he won't win in PA because he's black, gay and from philidaelphia. I've pointed out that candidates with similar hindarnces have won the state by huge margins.

[tjstarling]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Pennsylvania is substantislly more republican, then Illinois, and you know that. Biden, who  was born there (Scranton, not Philly...), is white, straight, and so on, won it by relatively small margin... So, your irony is useless here..

It's a shame he never ran for president so we'll never know how we he performed in Pennsylvania. He would have probably lost by 10 points if he had.

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Obama ran in very blue Illinois against freaking Alan Keyes. Something tells me Kenyatta won’t have that luxury in a much less blue PA. He would be an incredible risky, and I would say stupid, nominee in a likely 2022 election environment. “But he’s progressive and can boost youth an minority turnout” (just like Andrew Gilliam who did neither of those things in a much better political environment). I’ll take Fetterman who is “progressive” but maybe can con enough people with the Everyman schtick or some moderate hero who can win. People need to realize issue positions don’t mean squat to voters who don’t live in a bubble online. Style, winning, and power are all that matter in politics.

Yeah, he ran a race anywhere except a deep blue stronghold, all those rural democrats would have never voted for him. Unlike Hillary Clinton who would have won the state in a landslide through #populism.

1. PA is a much different state now than 2008 - coalition and partisanship are different.

2. Obama certainly has considerable political skill but democrats could have nominated a paper bag in ‘08 and stood a good chance of winning. Ignoring context/political environment is lazy analysis.

3. I can’t cite any empirics on this, however, I actually expect that, both nationally and especially in a few of your #populist states that were quite democratic locally at the time, Obama’s race and/or name likely cost him votes. There are states, such as IN, where nominating Obama was a positive due to regional impacts, but I suspect generic white Democrat would have convincingly outperformed him overall. That’s an indictment on America more so than on Obama himself.

4. Isn’t Obama insufficiently progressive nowadays? If so, how is his performance in the state EIGHT or TWELVE years ago indicative of how a “real” progressive with a funny name would perform.

[smoltchanov]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Pennsylvania is substantislly more republican, then Illinois, and you know that. Biden, who  was born there (Scranton, not Philly...), is white, straight, and so on, won it by relatively small margin... So, your irony is useless here..

It's a shame he never ran for president so we'll never know how we he performed in Pennsylvania. He would have probably lost by 10 points if he had.

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Yeah these kinds of candidates never win, remember how the democrats blew a senate race back in Illinois in 2004. Obama  Black, Not African American, Muslim Sounding Name, From Chicago. Almost every republican will crush him.

Obama ran in very blue Illinois against freaking Alan Keyes. Something tells me Kenyatta won’t have that luxury in a much less blue PA. He would be an incredible risky, and I would say stupid, nominee in a likely 2022 election environment. “But he’s progressive and can boost youth an minority turnout” (just like Andrew Gilliam who did neither of those things in a much better political environment). I’ll take Fetterman who is “progressive” but maybe can con enough people with the Everyman schtick or some moderate hero who can win. People need to realize issue positions don’t mean squat to voters who don’t live in a bubble online. Style, winning, and power are all that matter in politics.

Yeah, he ran a race anywhere except a deep blue stronghold, all those rural democrats would have never voted for him. Unlike Hillary Clinton who would have won the state in a landslide through #populism.

It's interesting to see utter lack of REAL arguments, but lot of desire to argue even knowing that other side is righ, and you are not...

Your argument is that he won't win in PA because he's black, gay and from philidaelphia. I've pointed out that candidates with similar hindarnces have won the state by huge margins.

Obama is straight and Illinois is substantially more Democratic then Pennsylvania (at least - because Chicago is bigger then Philly)... Plus - Obama wasn't SO liberal...

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

I have heard him speak and you’re right, John Fetterman and Conor Lamb (I haven’t heard Kenyatta speak enough to say) are both more charismatic than Cartwright.  However, I’ve also seen Cartwright’s victories in his district and the 2020 results speak for themselves.  Fetterman is ideologically better than Lamb and Lamb has a much stronger case from an electability standpoint.  Cartwright has both of their strengths (solid progressive, but also has a proven record of impressive over-performance in a tough district) with neither of their weaknesses. 

He may not be bursting with charisma, but he’s got a stronger claim than any other potential Democratic candidate to having somehow found the secret sauce to getting statistically significant crossover appeal and over-performing significantly in a tough district.

[KaiserDave]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

I have heard him speak and you’re right, John Fetterman and Conor Lamb (I haven’t heard Kenyatta speak enough to say) are both more charismatic than Cartwright.  However, I’ve also seen Cartwright’s victories in his district and the 2020 results speak for themselves.  Fetterman is ideologically better than Lamb and Lamb has a much stronger case from an electability standpoint.  Cartwright has both of their strengths (solid progressive, but also has a proven record of impressive over-performance in a tough district) with neither of their weaknesses. 

He may not be bursting with charisma, but he’s got a stronger claim than any other potential Democratic candidate to having somehow found the secret sauce to getting statistically significant crossover appeal and over-performing significantly in a tough district.

This, I've seen Matt speak and sure he might be a bit of a bore, but his wins speak more loudly.

[Skunk]

I know, I know, the comparisons are played out. But Georgia just elected a black pastor and a Jewish millennial and we're still doing the whole "Kenyatta is unelectable because he's gay and black" spiel. Give me a break.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Kenyatta has to appeal to voters outside of Philly in a natl primary, he won't win as I said before it will be 30, 9, 9 it won't even be close, Fetterman wins

You have to appeal to WC voters in Pittsburgh not just Philly that's why McGinty lost, Sestak and him being a vet appealed to Pitts.
This is the same state that Jack Murtha another vet appealed to

That's why Trump won the state over Hillary, winning vet vote, Casey and Fetterman appeals to that

The state hasn't elected a Liberal Senator

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Um... what's the problem with being black, gay, and from Philadelphia? Plenty of minorities get elected and even outperform white candidates....

[Xing]

We’re really going to play the “who’s the most electable?” game again, aren’t we?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Gonna go out on a limb and say a lot of the Cartwright support comes from people who haven't heard the man speak. Great rep, but not exactly bursting with charisma. Fetterman and Kenyatta, particularly Fetterman, would be better options.

Surely - not Kenyatta. Black, gay, from Philadelphia..... Almost any Republican candidate will crush him, and you may get some much worse Senator, then Toomey,

Um... what's the problem with being black, gay, and from Philadelphia? Plenty of minorities get elected and even outperform white candidates....

Name 1 ultra liberal Senator from PA, who can win Pittsburgh not just Montgomery County, Philly