Michigan mayor allegedly advocates killing the disabled

[Famous Mortimer]

Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted.

Essentially, the argument being made here

That is not the argument I am making.

[Ashley Biden's Diary]

Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted.

Essentially, the argument being made here by our esteemed posters "Famous Mortimer" and "WhiteMaleAndProud" is that Abraham Lincoln, a man who experienced clinical depression, and his wife Mary Lincoln, who experienced some form of schizophrenia, should have been aborted to make more room for the greats minds of Benito Mussolini and every other a**hole on this planet. And if either of them try to argue that that's not what would have happened, let me remind you that a eugenics program would likely expand to include everyone with even a slight illness. If you get that much power over who gets to be born and who doesn't, there's no telling what the limit will be.

Pretty sure someone named WhiteMaleAndProud would prefer Mussolini to Lincoln.

[Sorenroy]

Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted.

Essentially, the argument being made here...

That is not the argument I am making.

Is that not what you said? Did I miss some crucial context? The only thing I see is that you say "This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society.", but that doesn't change the fact that if everyone thought like you, those people would have been aborted. Your comment shows a worldview that would lead to what I am talking about.

[Famous Mortimer]

Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted.

Essentially, the argument being made here...

That is not the argument I am making.

Is that not what you said?

No. It is not what I said. I also didn't say that the holocaust never happened or that poop tastes good. If you want to know what I actually said, go back and read it again. Don't make up bizarre arguments and then attribute them to me apropos of nothing.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/michigan-mayor-allegedly-heard-attacking-mentally-challenged-article-1.2913365

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Quick, someone notify the secret service! He's threatened President Pussygrabber!

[Incipimus iterum]

Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted.

Essentially, the argument being made here...

That is not the argument I am making.

Is that not what you said?

No. It is not what I said. I also didn't say that the holocaust never happened or that poop tastes good. If you want to know what I actually said, go back and read it again. Don't make up bizarre arguments and then attribute them to me apropos of nothing.

Really... Lets take a look at the record

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

[Sorenroy]

Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted.

Essentially, the argument being made here...

That is not the argument I am making.

Is that not what you said?

No. It is not what I said. I also didn't say that the holocaust never happened or that poop tastes good. If you want to know what I actually said, go back and read it again. Don't make up bizarre arguments and then attribute them to me apropos of nothing.

I feel like I already did this, but you cut out the pertinent parts. Again, what I wrote in its entirety:

Is that not what you said? Did I miss some crucial context? The only thing I see is that you say "This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society.", but that doesn't change the fact that if everyone thought like you, those people would have been aborted. Your comment shows a worldview that would lead to what I am talking about.

And your original post:

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

So, again, your view is that people should check to see if their fetus has any sort of mental issues, and if it does, have it aborted. I will be honest and say that the first time I read this, I was so appalled by it I incorrectly read this as you saying that it should be mandated by law. However, this does not change any part of my second post. You stated that you believe that people should abort their fetus if it has a mental disability. I said that if everyone thought like you, incredibly intelligent people who have done far more for the world than you or me ever will would never have been born, because they were identified as undesirable. Not only that, but this horrible dystopia in which "society" shares your views is one in which those that do not share "society"'s views are outcasts. Is it really that hard to envision your "society" trying to weed out anyone who has any small physical or mental issue? Is it really that hard to envision a world where your "society" tries to breed out those characteristics, and perhaps moves towards eliminating the fetus's that don't have a certain color skin or eyes or hair?

[Frodo]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

The last time we tried that, those government-run 'care homes' (otherwise known as insane asylums) suffered from budget cuts, neglect, and abuse.  Patients even starved to death.  

There is no guarantee that won't happen again.  

[pbrower2a]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

We honor life not only when it is 'convenient' and 'useful' (which is about where a gangster would stand) but especially when it is burdensome. Would it be appropriate to kill people with Parkinsonism or senile dementia for the convenience and prosperity of their heirs? Convenient, perhaps, I would be in far better financial shape had my mother died as the Parkinsonism put her in a nursing home... and had my father died of a broken hip instead of spending several months of a failed convalescence. Such took away whatever quality of life I had over five horrible years. Now that I am 61 and have Asperger's I am practically unemployable, so I have little left to live for.

But such is life for many people -- being broke in a culture that seems to honor only material gain and indulgence and will become even more so in a month.    

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

[Tender Branson]

Roughly what the Nazis around here said before they came to power (and then did exterminate them).

I cry for America ...

[Meclazine for Israel]

The post is largely ignorant of what actually works in disability services.

Although i dont take offence if people dont know what they are talking about when they write this dross, it is clearly unacceptable.

[JA]

Roughly what the Nazis around here said before they came to power (and then did exterminate them).

I cry for America ...

Obviously our education system has failed to sufficiently educate the American populace, especially on the subjects of science, history, and civics. The number of people coming forward to voice their support for eugenics, racial separatism and hierarchy, and so on have obviously not learned anything from history. I just hope we aren't doomed to repeat it...

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Roughly what the Nazis around here said before they came to power (and then did exterminate them).

I cry for America ...

Obviously our education system has failed to sufficiently educate the American populace, especially on the subjects of science, history, and civics. The number of people coming forward to voice their support for eugenics, racial separatism and hierarchy, and so on have obviously not learned anything from history. I just hope we aren't doomed to repeat it...

My theory is that it's happening when it is at least in part because the Omaha Beach/Band of Brothers cohort has mostly died off (RIP, FFs) and the only people of whom some are left to tell people what it was like when the fash rose the first time are people who are in much less exalted positions in the public imagination. I recently saw somebody on some history subreddit (I don't post on Reddit but I read it on occasion) talking about how his younger cousin was getting into Panzer Leader-style Wehrmacht apologism and how it was a shame their grandfather wasn't still alive because 'he'd kick his ass until he learned to love the US Army'. Perhaps something similar is going on with regard to public memory of other aspects of the period too.

[Famous Mortimer]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

Being depressed is not the same as being mentally retarded. For one, severity. For another thing, being depressed can be treated by pills. Being mentally retarded cannot.

I never said the potentially depressed should be aborted. That's something Sorenroy made up in a fit of hysteria.

[Doimper]

My mentally disabled brother is the best thing that ever happened to us. He's the only person I think I'm truly capable of loving unconditionally. Why would I not want him in my life? What an asshole.

Yes, what sort of reprehensible human being would mock the disabled?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

Being depressed is not the same as being mentally retarded. For one, severity. For another thing, being depressed can be treated by pills. Being mentally retarded cannot.

I never said the potentially depressed should be aborted. That's something Sorenroy made up in a fit of hysteria.

Feel free to answer my question if you like.

[Famous Mortimer]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

Being depressed is not the same as being mentally retarded. For one, severity. For another thing, being depressed can be treated by pills. Being mentally retarded cannot.

I never said the potentially depressed should be aborted. That's something Sorenroy made up in a fit of hysteria.

Feel free to answer my question if you like.

I don't advocate abortion for easily treatable personality issues. I advocate abortion for severe intellectual disabilities. It's a very common position on the left. I suspect most of you attacking me also agree with it. That's why you haven't attacked my actual position and have instead attacked a strawman about aborting the depressed.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

Being depressed is not the same as being mentally retarded. For one, severity. For another thing, being depressed can be treated by pills. Being mentally retarded cannot.

I never said the potentially depressed should be aborted. That's something Sorenroy made up in a fit of hysteria.

Feel free to answer my question if you like.

I don't advocate abortion for easily treatable personality issues. I advocate abortion for severe intellectual disabilities. It's a very common position on the left. I suspect most of you attacking me also agree with it. That's why you haven't attacked my actual position and have instead attacked a strawman about aborting the depressed.

I haven't used that strawman because it's a repulsive position either way, 'very common on the left' or not. (What's even more alarming, and what certainly isn't common on the left as far as I know, is the notion that anybody who experiences an intellectually impaired loved one as a blessing is lying to herself--seriously, what the Christ?) Feel free to answer my question if you like.

[Famous Mortimer]

The answers is I wouldn't like it. Which is why I don't advocate for it.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The answers is I wouldn't like it. Which is why I don't advocate for it.

It's exactly what you're advocating for.

[Person Man]

At this point,  we have to be resigned to the fact that 'it is happening here and now". It would be ignorant to think otherwise.

Personally, no one should be forced to carry a damaged fetus to term but if a fetus is discovered like that, but the parents should be automatically given the choice of prenatal disability benefits. I wouldn't know what I would do if I knew if I was going to have a disabled child but it wouldn't be my choice to make. It should also be illegal to have people castrated or prevented to grow because they are disabled. My grandparents had my Down Syndrome Aunt castrated. They were Conservative Catholics.

I do think that there should be a cultural shift in care that sees a lot of current disabilities as conditions that we will be able to greatly improve. Being disabled is being sick. Not a "difference". We should be saying that about obesity as well.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

At this point,  we have to be resigned to the fact that 'it is happening here and now". It would be ignorant to think otherwise.

Personally, no one should be forced to carry a damaged fetus to term but if a fetus is discovered like that, but the parents should be automatically given the choice of prenatal disability benefits. I wouldn't know what I would do if I knew if I was going to have a disabled child but it wouldn't be my choice to make. It should also be illegal to have people castrated or prevented to grow because they are disabled. My grandparents had my Down Syndrome Aunt castrated. They were Conservative Catholics.

Clearly not Catholic enough, if they did that. Yeesh.

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I understand the rationale behind looking at it like this and I understand that it's well-intentioned but it's not the way I or most of the other disabled people I know would want to be looked at.

[Incipimus iterum]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

Being depressed is not the same as being mentally retarded. For one, severity. For another thing, being depressed can be treated by pills. Being mentally retarded cannot.

I never said the potentially depressed should be aborted. That's something Sorenroy made up in a fit of hysteria.

Feel free to answer my question if you like.

I don't advocate abortion for easily treatable personality issues. I advocate abortion for severe intellectual disabilities. It's a very common position on the left. I suspect most of you attacking me also agree with it. That's why you haven't attacked my actual position and have instead attacked a strawman about aborting the depressed.

If you had a family member who had severe intellectual disabilities at birth would you want them to be aborted?

[Famous Mortimer]

The mentally disabled should not be killed. They are humans. At the same time, they are absolutely a burden to society and anyone who says they are a blessing is clearly just trying to make themselves feel better about the horrible situation they are in. To minimize their burden to society, the government should run care homes where these people can be taken care of. If people want to take care of their own mentally retarded relatives by themselves, they should of course be allowed but if there are quality care homes, very few will choose that option. Also, as soon as a mental disability is diagnosed, a fetus should be aborted. This should not be mandated by law, just encouraged by society. People whose families have a history of mental retardation should also be discouraged from having children, again, not by the law, just by society. Eugenics is fine as long as it's not racial.

Would you really want to live in a world where you went through life knowing that if you didn't meet some more or less arbitrary standard of mental health nobody would have wanted you to be born?

Being depressed is not the same as being mentally retarded. For one, severity. For another thing, being depressed can be treated by pills. Being mentally retarded cannot.

I never said the potentially depressed should be aborted. That's something Sorenroy made up in a fit of hysteria.

Feel free to answer my question if you like.

I don't advocate abortion for easily treatable personality issues. I advocate abortion for severe intellectual disabilities. It's a very common position on the left. I suspect most of you attacking me also agree with it. That's why you haven't attacked my actual position and have instead attacked a strawman about aborting the depressed.

If you had a family member who had severe intellectual disabilities at birth would you want them to be aborted?

If they're born, they're born. There's nothing you can do at that point. Of course I would think in retrospect they should have been aborted. Their life is troublesome for others and they themselves won't really be capable of fully enjoying it. Their life might even be mostly suffering.

Are you against abortion in general? Because you could make this same argument against all abortion.

Would you want any member of your family to be aborted? Would you want your mom to have been aborted? No. I guess we gotta outlaw all abortions then.