COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

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During the Ebola pandemic, Andrew Cuomo and Chris Christie enacted quarantines that applied only to people who had been exposed to Ebola patients. This meant very few people were even quarantined. Yet a lot of people back then said this was much too strict. Dr. Fauci even said this was much too strict and urged only monitoring, not a quarantine. When Florida implemented monitoring, some people even said that was too strict.

So why do we now have these much stricter measures that have lasted 5 whole months, and nobody dares to publicly oppose them?

Because there were 4 cases of Ebola in the United States and 5,529,789 cases of Coronavirus? Not to mention the fact that Coronavirus is transmitted via airborne droplets and not just direct fluid transfer like Ebola.

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https://scitechdaily.com/most-americans-say-theyll-continue-health-precautions-after-the-covid-19-pandemic/

A new national survey of more than 2,000 Americans by The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center finds most plan to continue many of the pandemic precautions in the name of public health, even when the pandemic is over.



The survey found that nearly three-quarters (72%) of Americans plan to continue to wear masks in public, four out of five (80%) will still avoid crowds and 90% plan to keep up frequent handwashing and sanitizer use after COVID-19. Gonsenhauser says it’s encouraging that people are willing to continue these practices and that this year’s flu season is proof of their effectiveness.

Somehow I really doubt this. But let's entertain this for a moment, if this was true, this means the end of conventions and large gatherings

I also doubt it. I've followed the rules and worn my mask because I know its the best thing for stopping the pandemic, but as soon as this sh**t is over I'm burning my masks and jumping into a crowd. I know many other people feel the same way.

Also who the hell are the 10% of people who won't wash their hands without a pandemic? Disgusting.

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Schools need to reopen. Either education is important or it isn't. I am of the opinion that it is, and that getting students back into classrooms would be worth it even if there still is some risk of transmission. We cannot have a whole generation of students with stunted educations and social skills, who are ill-equipped to go to college or the workforce.

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https://twitter.com/nycjim/status/1361344667405680646

The only good Republican is a Republican powerless to abuse anyone else.

I fail to see a problem with this. Why should they get special treatment without doing work that requires it?

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2/22 (Today): <M>

• Cases: 28,826,307 (+60,884 | ΔW Change: ↑8.27% | Σ Increase: ↑0.21%)
• Deaths: 512,590 (+1,457 | ΔW Change: ↑41.59% | Σ Increase: ↑0.29%)

sh**t

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If wearing masks in public didn't work why is this one of the least potent flu seasons ever?

Then why are there so many COVID-19 cases?

If seat belts are so effective, then why are there still so many deaths from car crashes?

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Happy COVID Anniversary everyone. It's been 1 year (give or take a few days for the region) since everything here went to hell.

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https://twitter.com/TimJHanrahan/status/1379957819458355200

If we would just implement a vaccine mandate, there would no need to anticipate any restrictions on anything by the mid-summer.  I don't understand why such an essential part of our health policy apparently revolves around appeasing Plandemic conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxers.

The government may have the power to mandate, but people would react quite negatively and it would probably be counterproductive. Trying to force adults to get vaccinated could lead to increased hostility, and fewer people getting vaccinated than without a mandate. Some people would take the fines and make a show of it.

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https://twitter.com/TimJHanrahan/status/1379957819458355200

If we would just implement a vaccine mandate, there would no need to anticipate any restrictions on anything by the mid-summer.  I don't understand why such an essential part of our health policy apparently revolves around appeasing Plandemic conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxers.

The government may have the power to mandate, but people would react quite negatively and it would probably be counterproductive. Trying to force adults to get vaccinated could lead to increased hostility, and fewer people getting vaccinated than without a mandate. Some people would take the fines and make a show of it.

Who are these "people"?  Anti-vax conspiracy theorists?  I don't care what they think, and neither should our government. 

The vast majority of American support vaccine mandates for the good of producing herd immunity.  That's why every single state has some form of vaccine mandate for children for many diseases.

Not all of the ~25% of the people who don't want to get the vaccine are "anti-vax conspiracy theorists". Many people are skeptical of it because it is a brand new vaccine with an emergency use authorization, and are worried about long-term effects.

That's all besides the point though. You do need to care what they think if you want them to get vaccinated. If you were to fine people for not getting the vaccine a lot of people would comply, but a lot of people would also just pay the fine. You also risk people refusing it "out of principle" because they don't like the idea of a mandate. There is a risk that it would only solidify the chunk of people who don't want the vaccine.

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And just like we should not be designing our voting procedures around those who falsely believe the election was stolen, we should not design our health policies around those who falsely believe the vaccines are dangerous or ineffective.

If the health policy in question is "getting people who believe the vaccines are dangerous or ineffective to take the vaccine", then obviously that policy needs to be designed around people who believe the vaccines are dangerous or ineffective. Because that would be the point of the policy.

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I don’t understand how people could support a mask mandate but not a vaccine mandate. 

Getting a shot once or twice is obviously both much, much, more effective and much less inconvenient than wearing a mask everywhere for more than a year.

There is the possibility of some kind of negative reaction to a vaccine. Maybe there’s long-term effects that haven’t been noticed yet. It’s unlikely, but people don’t like the idea of not having a choice when it comes to that.

There are no possible side effects from wearing a mask. Nobody is going to have long term problems from wearing one.

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I have a question that I've been wondering about a while now, for the medically knowledgable people here.

At what point is something no longer a pandemic? If COVID-19 is still circulating in x years, when do they just say that it is endemic in humans?

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Jacksonville Regeneron clinic photo ‘doesn’t convey ... pain' of COVID-19 patients

Louie Lopez showed up to the downtown Jacksonville Main Library Conference Center on Wednesday in the early afternoon for a Regeneron therapy appointment. His primary care doctor recommended it after Lopez tested positive for COVID-19 and was experiencing moderate to severe symptoms.

While waiting in line for his turn, two other people got in the line behind Lopez. Both of them, he says, sat down on the floor immediately. They eventually laid down “sick and moaning.” Lopez, 59, told the Times-Union the woman pictured in yellow was dragging herself on the floor as the line slowly moved forward.

Lopez took a photo and sent it to his wife.

Why won't Joe Biden take responsibility for this?  I don't want to hear any finger-pointing.  He's the president and the buck stops with him.

It’s incredible how insecure you are about Biden getting any criticism at all.

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Watch this powerful video.. it will explain to yall why I have been skeptical of covid mitigation measures and fear they will be around for ever.

It's a powerful video

https://youtu.be/G6qfWJjvN2I

wow realy makes u think

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5 pages now of compucomp declaring the decision to not have boosters either “treason” or “impeachable”.

We get it, you think you know more about public health than the CDC or FDA. There’s no need to keep repeating it every 10 posts.

Also, for the love of god, I am begging you to read the Constitution. The word “treason” has a definition that this does not come within 100 miles of meeting.

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Some people really have lost their damn minds. 0 deaths in over 1700 cases constrains the mortality heavily even if its jUsT EaRlY DaTa, and indicates that the true value is far under 1%. The Omicron variant barely seems more dangerous than any other circulating coronavirus (i.e. the common cold). Yes, I know the other variants still exist, but anyone sh**tting themselves over Omicron at this point needs to take a hard look at the actual data.

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Restaurants should adapt to the new normal, de-emphasize their dining rooms and emphasize their takeout and delivery options. It would probably help if there were some regulation on Doordash/Seamless/Ubereats as they are probably acting like a cartel right now with their fees.

For most restaurants, “adapting to the new normal” will involve just shutting down. Most restaurants have narrow profit margins in the first place. You can’t just ““de-emphasize the dining room”” when doing so would mean the restaurant is no longer profitable.

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Can we stop posting the equivalent of chain email screeds in this thread? It’s bad enough already without them.

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Your leader has spoken! He asks that you continue to wear masks. Do you want to be a Trumpist numbskull? I know you don't, 90% of this forum opposes Trump. Wear the mask.

President Biden on masks

“I know that for some Americans, a mask is not always affordable or convenient to get. So next week, we’ll announce how we’re making high-quality masks available to American people for free,” he said in remarks about the administration’s COVID-19 surge response.

He touted the work done already to make sure there is a supply of N95 masks for health care workers and first responders.

“We also helped make sure that high quality masks are widely available and an ample supply at affordable prices sold online and in stores,” he said, regarding masks for the public.

Biden on Thursday also addressed the frustration among Americans with continued mask wearing mandates and guidance.

“I know we all wish that we could finally be done with wearing masks. I get it. But there is a really important tool to stop the spread, especially the highly transmissible omicron variant. So please, please wear the mask,” he said.

You are equating opposition to mask mandates for support with Trump? That doesn't seem to be a fair evaluation of where this forum stands on the issue. But at this point, it's obvious that the majority of posters are at odds with you on this, as you are with them. You won't retreat from your viewpoints, and they won't retreat from theirs.

Now that President Biden unambiguously supports masks, if you oppose them you oppose him. Then since we are in a two party FPTP system, if you oppose Biden you support Trump. The anti-maskers here now must decide, do they oppose Biden here and allow Trump to get a win, effectively turning into a Trump supporter? Or do they close ranks behind Biden to form a united front against Trump?

I am in awe of your ability to make absolutely nonsensical points with such confidence. Bravo.

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Your leader has spoken! He asks that you continue to wear masks. Do you want to be a Trumpist numbskull? I know you don't, 90% of this forum opposes Trump. Wear the mask.

President Biden on masks

“I know that for some Americans, a mask is not always affordable or convenient to get. So next week, we’ll announce how we’re making high-quality masks available to American people for free,” he said in remarks about the administration’s COVID-19 surge response.

He touted the work done already to make sure there is a supply of N95 masks for health care workers and first responders.

“We also helped make sure that high quality masks are widely available and an ample supply at affordable prices sold online and in stores,” he said, regarding masks for the public.

Biden on Thursday also addressed the frustration among Americans with continued mask wearing mandates and guidance.

“I know we all wish that we could finally be done with wearing masks. I get it. But there is a really important tool to stop the spread, especially the highly transmissible omicron variant. So please, please wear the mask,” he said.

You are equating opposition to mask mandates for support with Trump? That doesn't seem to be a fair evaluation of where this forum stands on the issue. But at this point, it's obvious that the majority of posters are at odds with you on this, as you are with them. You won't retreat from your viewpoints, and they won't retreat from theirs.

Now that President Biden unambiguously supports masks, if you oppose them you oppose him. Then since we are in a two party FPTP system, if you oppose Biden you support Trump. The anti-maskers here now must decide, do they oppose Biden here and allow Trump to get a win, effectively turning into a Trump supporter? Or do they close ranks behind Biden to form a united front against Trump?

This makes no sense, whatsoever. A Democratic or Republican voter should not be required to support every position that their candidate or their leader holds. If such a requirement were exacted of them, that would be an unfair and undemocratic move. Ironically enough, what you say here sounds very much like what the Trumpists would say. Any Republican who does not wholeheartedly support Trump and who even deviates from one position that he holds is denounced by them as a "RINO" or as "not being a true conservative." Such a viewpoint should not invade the Democratic Party. I'm a Biden voter, and yet I haven't approved of much of the Administration's strategy and messaging with regards to the pandemic in recent months.

You did a good job of describing how politics should be. But that's not how it is. Clearly Trump and the Republicans have taken "in unity lies strength" to heart. Their total unity behind Trump clearly powers them through just about any crisis or bad press and keeps them always a threat to take over. In the face of this, not supporting Biden and showing Democratic disunity is basically unilateral disarmament, like Republican states drawing gerrymanders while Democratic states use independent commissions and draw fair maps. Look at the 2016 and 2020 elections, it's clear that only a unified Democratic party can beat the Trumpist Republicans. So if you want to oppose Trump, you must support Biden on the foremost issue of the day.

Nah

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Hot take: Democrats probably lose big in the midterms, but it will have almost nothing to do with COVID (directly). Biden's "poor handling of COVID" is not what drove down his approvals. For most of the slump his COVID approvals have been considerably higher than his general approval rating. It wouldn't make any sense for that to be the cause of the administration's unpopularity then. Contrast this with Biden's approvals on inflation and the economy, which are in the gutter. Inflation and economic concerns will probably be far more important for people's votes this fall.

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No, I do not support permanent mask mandates.  I think we can get rid of mask mandates once two conditions are met.  The meeting of both of these conditions will, in my book, be sufficient to reduce COVID to an endemic flu nature.

Here are my conditions:

1) The spread is no longer at absurdly high numbers, overwhelming hospitals and in particular ICUs.  So long as hospitals are completely overwhelmed even with the safety measures in place, it is beyond foolish to remove those safety measures, thus overwhelming hospitals to an even greater degree.

2)  Sufficient protection is available such people have the capability to no longer be threatened by COVID.  Most likely this comes from good vaccine technology, but it could also come from COVID rates being so low that it's no longer a threat.  The point being, I should be able to go out and enjoy my life without being afraid of unmasked people giving me COVID and seriously harming my life.  This was not true for most of 2020 and 2021 when running around unmasked among other unmasked people was a good way to get a very serious disease.  Here in 2022, so long as Omicron remains the variant responsible for almost all cases and can be easily combatted with the vaccine, I consider this condition satisfied.

So (1) will probably be satisfied in about 1-2 weeks as cases continue to collapse and hospitals regain the ability to manage COVID -- so it's not irresponsible for the government to increase their burden.

(2) I consider already satisfied.  But that could change if there is another new variant.

I consider both conditions (1) and (2) to have been satisfied from about May-August of 2021, in that lovely window where we had effective vaccines but Delta had not hit yet.

I also think vaccine mandates can be removed at the same time, since the point of the vaccine mandates is also to satisfy (1) by keeping people from overwhelming hospitals with severe COVID.  I don't agree with the Horus take that anti-vaxxers should just be left on the street to die.  However, I do think it is reasonable for the government to add the COVID vaccine to the normal vaccine schedule required for the military, schools, foreign entry, etc. and to heavily encourage people to get any annual boosters required to keep the virus -- especially in its original and Delta forms -- at bay.

This is honestly a fairly reasonable post. At the least I'm glad you're not in the forever COVID camp, unlike compcomp who opposed the lifting of mask mandates for vaccinated people even when COVID was at its nadir last spring and proved that nothing would ever be good enough.

That's because masks are low cost, low effort, and don't prevent anyone from doing anything. It's literally putting on a piece of clothing. I said at the time, and maintain now, that it was a huge public health messaging blunder to put together social distancing and masks. There is good reason to hate social distancing, since it can cause serious economic damage and ruin people's livelihoods, and it's not a sustainable practice. On the other hand, masks could totally be sustainable long term if people just would get over themselves and get used to them.

You can feel that way if you want. Just don't complain when people accuse you of wanting this to go on forever, because you very clearly do.

That's not for me to decide. That's for the virus to decide. Somewhere in the middle of all this discussion it was lost that there is a highly contagious respiratory pathogen that is still causing illness, hospitalization, and deaths far in excess of the seasonal flu, and has shown a capacity to evolve to our detriment. The virus is a force of nature and we don't get to dictate what it does, we can only react to what it does.

Except you just said that you favour mask mandates to continue indefinitely. And, even when the virus wasn't posing a threat to anyone last spring, you were still in favour of mask mandates. If you wanted to try the "it's not me, it's the virus line", you shouldn't have just admitted to wanting mandates to continue indefinitely. This is clearly not about the virus, this is about you and the way you think society should be.

It's wrong to say the virus wasn't a threat to anyone last spring. The pandemic was heading on a trajectory towards zero, but it had not gotten anywhere close to zero, nor did we ever reach Fauci's 10K benchmark that would indicate the spread is under control. Also the lifting of mask mandates for vaccinated people is a cop-out, as we saw quite quickly it meant the lifting of mask mandates for everyone, and once that happened it was hard to bring the mask mandates back anywhere. Only the cartoonish case numbers of Omicron has managed to do that. It was essentially a risky bet that the near-sterilizing immunity of the vaccines would hold up, a bet which lost spectacularly when Delta and Omicron hit. In hindsight I was 100% correct to criticize the May CDC mask guidance.

Again, you're perfectly free to feel that way. No one is stopping you from holding these views. Just don't complain when people accuse you of wanting this to go on forever, because as you have clearly demonstrated more than once now, you do in fact want it to go on forever.

Again, it doesn't matter what I want. It matters what the virus does. I strongly believe that at no point during the pandemic has the risk from COVID dropped to a level where the minimal cost incurred from mask mandates would not be worth the benefit gained, emphasis on minimal cost. If COVID magically disappears like SARS did, then fine, get rid of mask mandates. If we can really sustain 10K cases a day, then fine, get rid of mask mandates. But if we can't ever get there, and it's definitely plausible that we won't, then mask mandates should be in place forever. That doesn't mean I want the pandemic to go on forever, but if it does in fact go on forever we will need mask mandates forever.

I'm glad to see you admit it.

Admit what? Of "wanting" mask mandates to go on forever? Again, somewhere it got lost that there is a pandemic of a highly contagious and still deadly virus going around and masks help slow the spread. If this virus and its descendants keep spreading around forever, of course I want mask mandates, a minimal cost mitigation measure, to go on forever. Since the weather gets cold every winter, you put on a coat every winter to go outside. But winter coats are funny looking and a bit cumbersome, so instead you'll burn the coat and go outside now in shorts and t-shirt? Has anyone ever said I only want to wear coats on a temporary basis and eventually winter must cease to happen and we only have summer?

Is there a jacket mandate?

No, because hypothermia is not a contagious disease, which COVID emphatically is.

Let's look at another example, airport security. I'm old enough to remember what it was like to go through security before 9/11. Since then all kinds of restrictions and procedures were added, strict ID check, only ticketed passengers at the gate, taking off shoes, throwing out liquids, going through that vertical scanner, etc. Is it annoying to go through that? Yeah, it's annoying. But all those procedures came about because some terrorist exploited a weakness in the prior procedure. Since the terrorists aren't going away, these procedures aren't going away either, and by now they've become part of "airport culture" and people have largely gotten used to and stopped complaining about it. I'm not old enough to remember the introduction of indoor no-smoking mandates but I imagine it went through a similar pattern of initial resistance and gradual acceptance. If COVID doesn't go away and continues to cause illness and death at the current levels I think mask mandates will go in the same direction.

The fact that you’re comparing COVID measures to airport security is such a bad argument that it’s funny. Airport security is pointless theatre which inconveniences millions of people per year, and has never stopped a terrorist attack from happening. The lack of terrorist attacks on airlines since 9/11 is in no way attributable to the TSA, but rather to the fact that terrorism is uncommon and that terrorists are usually stupid (the shoe bomber, underwear bomber, etc.). But hey, you’re the one who made the comparison.

Furthermore, even if we accept the airline comparison, the only reason it isn’t a political issue is because your average American flies less than once per year. If those pointless and costly policies were imposed on people every time they left the house, nobody would have accepted it.

Also, I apologize for not clipping the massive quote pyramid, but it’s hard to do that on mobile.

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Yes, I am a hero.

Humblest Atlas poster.

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Still have not seen BA.2 mentioned a single time except on Atlas; in threads where people complain about the supposed hysteria over it. Also have not seen anything anywhere about reimplementing restrictions (though my University was late in relaxing them, only doing so in the last two weeks).

Don't understand what people in this thread are getting themselves all worked up about. I do understand why people might feel resentment and strong feelings over the imo unnecessary Omicron restrictions, but I don't see any evidence of the things people are claiming to still see in this thread.

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DO NOT GET A BOOSTER EVERY SIX MONTHS!!!!!! ONCE A ING YEAR IN THE FALL IS SUFFICIENT.

How can you possibly know this?  I’d be happy to get a booster every month if it means we don’t have to wear masks on planes anymore.

As per usual, he's just talking out of his ass, he knows just as much as we do. I'll be eligible for a second booster as soon as they're approved for under 50 and plan on getting one asap.

I was always right that Covid measures were BULL.

And Alex Jones was right about the government spying on us; that doesn't mean I'm going to buy fluoride shield or start believing that there are child sex slave colonies on the moon.