Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[Keystone Phil]

Leave it to the classy folks here to immediately turn this into a political debate!

Very, very sad news. I was on my way back from a funeral when a friend texted me about it. Whoever did this will hopefully fry.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/ariz_congresswoman_shot_in_head_YFTvsurRHy5OWGSRKnuK8J#ixzz1ATfPK9fq

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, was rushing to the hospital when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies. "Yeah," he told The New York Post. "The whole tea party."

And if George W. Bush was shot, his father would say W.'s enemies were "the whole American Left." That doesn't mean it would be a leftist plot. Terribly dangerous and irresponsible comment on the part of the father but I guess we can cut him some slack since his daughter was just shot and he was probably in a panic.

[Keystone Phil]

Look at px foaming at the mouth, trying to find anything he possibly can to make this about Republicans/Tea Parties.

[Keystone Phil]

And if George W. Bush was shot, his father would say W.'s enemies were "the whole American Left." That doesn't mean it would be a leftist plot. Terribly dangerous and irresponsible comment on the part of the father but I guess we can cut him some slack since his daughter was just shot and he was probably in a panic.

How big of you.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How was I turning it into a political debate? I think it's irresponsible and actually very dangerous for her father to make this political but since he's obviously panicking, I won't be disgusted with him as I am with others for pretty much hoping that the Tea Party was involved.

[Keystone Phil]

Leave it to the classy folks here to immediately turn this into a political debate!

Very, very sad news. I was on my way back from a funeral when a friend texted me about it. Whoever did this will hopefully fry.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/ariz_congresswoman_shot_in_head_YFTvsurRHy5OWGSRKnuK8J#ixzz1ATfPK9fq

Her father Spencer Giffords, 75, was rushing to the hospital when asked if his 40-year-old daughter had any enemies. "Yeah," he told The New York Post. "The whole tea party."

And if George W. Bush was shot, his father would say W.'s enemies were "the whole American Left." That doesn't mean it would be a leftist plot. Terribly dangerous and irresponsible comment on the part of the father but I guess we can cut him some slack since his daughter was just shot and he was probably in a panic.

Oh, good grief.. Perhaps he wouldn't have said if he daughter hadn't have been threatened and had her office vandalized in the last year. It's not like he didn't have good reason.

You complain about some turning it into a political debate and you come in here attempting to do just that. Hypocrisy.

My "turning this into a political debate" was just providing one example why naming political enemies isn't appropriate in the immediate aftermath.

[Keystone Phil]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/01/murder-in-arizona-live-blogging.html


3.49 pm Various Palin sites are frantically removing various incendiary materials - which is both gratifying, but also, it seems to me, an acknowledgment of previous rhetorical excess. TakeBackThe20.com is in meltdown, images like these are being removed ASAP, and Palin's Facebook page simply cannot cope with the number of commenters blasting her.

Yeah, you're just "reporting."  

People have been making an issue that Palin's "targeted districts" for 2010 called for this type of action. And I bet a bunch of you tools, as disingenuous as it may be since you obviously know better, would agree.

[Keystone Phil]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/01/murder-in-arizona-live-blogging.html


3.49 pm Various Palin sites are frantically removing various incendiary materials - which is both gratifying, but also, it seems to me, an acknowledgment of previous rhetorical excess. TakeBackThe20.com is in meltdown, images like these are being removed ASAP, and Palin's Facebook page simply cannot cope with the number of commenters blasting her.

Yeah, you're just "reporting."  

People have been making an issue that Palin's "targeted districts" for 2010 called for this type of action. And I bet a bunch of you tools, as disingenuous as it may be since you obviously know better, would agree.ed

The Pima county sheriff also attacked right-wingers for their hateful rhetoric against Giffords.
Is he a Dem tool too?

No, just being irresponsible at this point. Again, not sure how many right wingers classify Marx as one of their favorite authors...

[Keystone Phil]

http://www.alan.com/2010/03/24/palin-puts-gun-sighs-on-target-map-says-ti/

Crazy coincidence.

Please see Wormguy's signature.

[Keystone Phil]

For the record, I didn't see or hear anyone hoping it was an illegal immigrant but if that was the case, they're equally nauseating.

[Keystone Phil]

But, like I've said, an assassination of a political figures is inherently political.

The discussion is political but to assign a specific political motivation/ideology just after this happens is ridiculous.

[Keystone Phil]

Yep, sounds like a leftie to me.

Communist Manifesto listed as a favorite book. Definitely a Tea Partier.

[Keystone Phil]

Please see Wormguy's signature.

At least it's targeted states, not named people.

Ding ding.

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess you're still not familiar with the "targeted district" idea. It's a political term. Now tell me you guys have never used it before. 

[Keystone Phil]

I do think it matter that Palin, unlike others, never called for violence against the government or elected officials. She blithely joked about it and played up her affection for shooting, and it makes a lot of people queasy, but we must distinguish between her, well, vulgarity about guns and the people who've actually spoken about the potential for watering the tree of liberty with blood etc.

It's obviously a stupid act on Palin's part, but I don't fully fault her for this incident.

Wow. That's very big of you. I mean, most people would set aside the fact that she didn't actually pull the trigger or explicitly tell someone to do this and blame her fully but not you. That's good.

[Keystone Phil]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/palin-aide-crosshairs-on-target-list-not-actually-gun-sights.php?ref=fpb

Oh for God's sake. This is pathetic. Atleast do the responsible and admit that you were in the wrong. And if it weren't gun shots, why take it off the site?

Are you people that dense or just being especially hackish because you don't want to admit something? As someone that follows American politics, you know that the term "targeted district" does not mean an actual gun target.

I would have kept it up to explain it but I don't blame her for taking it down when you consider all of the foaming at the mouth over this. Certain people find it, twist it and then don't let her explain it.

[Keystone Phil]

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

[Keystone Phil]

I love the assumption that because he burns flags then therefore he's left-wing.

Anyone that assumes that is wrong...just like anyone that thinks being "anti government" is necessarily only extremely right wing.

[Keystone Phil]

I love the assumption that because he burns flags then therefore he's left-wing.

Anyone that assumes that is wrong...just like anyone that thinks being "anti government" is necessarily only extremely right wing.

The bigger the government, the more left-wing it is.

It reminds me of my arguments with a friend of mine when he insists that fascism is far left because it advocates bigger government.

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

I agree with this, and I hate when you start becoming really sarcastic in your posts. Of course I don't fault Palin for this, she had nothing to do with it. The only thing I hold against her is her "rhetoric" shes used the past year or so. That goes for a lot of other people, and ive already said people should watch what they said whether they are Democrat or Republican.

If this was tied to a Tea Partier or other far right winger, I'd agree but this nut wasn't acting on what Palin or Beck or anyone else said. In fact, he probably hates them, too, so I don't see how their rhetoric is to blame.

If Palin had "nothing to do with it," I just ask that you don't indulge certain people when they post the "targeted districts" map. As someone that follows politics, it ought to be accepted that posting that is extremely disingenuous.

[Keystone Phil]

The Targeted Districts don't actually mention certain people by name though, I feel like they are both entirely different. Not only that, but they are all located on a map by Gun targets. Quite different and I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

...

Palin's map is of targeted districts and the targeted districts are showing which ones were vulnerable for a Republican pick up. They are located on a map and of course they are going to name the incumbent member of Congress that is being targeted for defeat. Or should we not be allowed to say which members we want losing now?

[Keystone Phil]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt.

Tea Party.

A reasonable hypothesis two hours after the event before anything was known about the man.

Ok but that proves that someone was blaming the Tea Party (so you're wrong right off the bat) and it's dangerous to assign blame like that without knowing.

Basically, your side is allowed to lecture about rhetoric/tone but you can speak however you'd like. Keep lecturing while demonizing the Tea Party and Palin then tell me how you're not being blatantly hypocritical.

[Keystone Phil]

Democracy can not survive if people resort to physical violence when they lose at the ballot box.

Of course not. Hardly anyone would dispute that, though....and the tragic shooting of Giffords certainly wasn't a case of that.

Stop that. It isn't right to interrupt their Palin/Tea Party bashing during this tragedy.

[Keystone Phil]

Cinyc, phil, jbrase, how would you feel if Obama, Dick Blumenthal, etc. were going on national tv and saying "This is Lloyd Blankfein's house. 1313 Mockingbird Lane, Greenwich, Connecticut. Mr. Blankfein is blocking reforms we need to prevent Wall Street from stealing your money. Now, I would never hurt him myself, but maybe it would be good for the country if people went out there and showed him exactly why he should work with us instead of against us..."

Oh, I wasn't aware that Palin and the others you despise and want to blame for this called on someone to be hurt.

[Keystone Phil]

DeadFlagBlues continues to constantly have the most "Uh..." response worthy posts.

Cinyc, phil, jbrase, how would you feel if Obama, Dick Blumenthal, etc. were going on national tv and saying "This is Lloyd Blankfein's house. 1313 Mockingbird Lane, Greenwich, Connecticut. Mr. Blankfein is blocking reforms we need to prevent Wall Street from stealing your money. Now, I would never hurt him myself, but maybe it would be good for the country if people went out there and showed him exactly why he should work with us instead of against us..."

Oh, I wasn't aware that Palin and the others you despise and want to blame for this called on someone to be hurt.

Second time, Phil: go back and read what I wrote about Palin in this thread if you want to respond to me. Please.

This thread is over forty pages long. If you could, please quote it here. Better yet, save yourself some time and let it go if you're just going to continue to go on about rhetoric while mocking my points about Kanjorski's extremely dangerous comments.

[Keystone Phil]

I must applaud Congressman Grijalva and Congresswoman Pingree, just interviewed on Hardball, for saying this wasn't the fault of just the Left or Right. Grijalva actually made it a point to say that he wasn't blaming  the "political discourse" for this.

Meanwhile, Matthews kept making it about Angle, Palin, etc. Thank you to most of those on the set for being adults.