Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Democrat - Burn'em all!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Democrat - Burn'em all!

Wait. Wait. You would rather have a Neoliberal Fascist as America's President who isn't willing to change than a somewhat moderate but who is willing to change ?

For s sake Perez isn't a moderate. Stop feeding their alternative reality narrative.

He's worse than a moderate. He's the Establishment.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

For the time being it is their property.

Well we need to change that and soon.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 

Because I want the Democratic party to actually start representing the needs and concerns of normal, working-class American, and not just consulting firms and hip, shallow suburbanites. Because it would be nice if at least one of the two parties did that.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Trump won the election because he made false promises and promised jobs that can never be brought back. His winning had everything to do with demagoguery and little to do with Democrats not being liberal enough.

T***p won because he promised something other than the continued status quo where the working class keeps getting the shaft at every turn. Which naturally made him a better candidate than Ms. "America is already great!"

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 

Because I want the Democratic party to actually start representing the needs and concerns of normal, working-class American, and not just consulting firms and hip, shallow suburbanites.

If you knew the process of electing the DNC chair to be 'illegitimate' (and therefore rigged and foreordained), then why expect a different result? 

Because I hoped that the Establishment that controls the process was at least willing to compromise with the base on this (relatively inconsequential) choice. The fact that they didn't signals that they don't give a sh*t what the base want, and will always throw their full might against it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Democrat - Burn'em all!

You seem to think the office of DNC Chair has near a thousand times as much power as it actually does.

The office of DNC chair is not the real issue here. See my post above.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's only the DNC chair. Not the f-cking candidate for President.

Yep, and the chair is bound to support all Democratic nominees, no matter what.

If Berniecrats get off their ass and get Berniecrats nominated in all 435 House seats in 2018, then Perez will strongly support all 435 of them. If all 435 seats nominated Blue Dogs, the DNC chairman, even if it was Bernie himself, would support all 435 of them. If we nominate 435 conspiracist raving lunatics, the DNC chairman will undyingly support all 435 of them.

It's a hack-in-chief for the party and whoever the party nominates, in addition to being a glorified fundraiser.

Perez will rig things against progressives like the Obama/Clinton wing always does. He even told the Hillary campaign to use race baiting against the progressives.

LOL. And vaccines are bad, global warming is fake, and the government did 9/11.

Huh, that's documented.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

[Antonio the Sixth]

This quote from Matt Bruenig sums it up:



It's a club, and you're not invited in it. The Democratic Party cannot, will not, and most importantly does not know how to save you.

Exactly. The Establishment has declared war and it's time the base responds in kind.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

For f**k's sake.

[Antonio the Sixth]

For those interested...some leaked (or claims to have leaked) the DNC Chair Ballot voting list showing how each state and member voted in the first and second round:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mi9sac97q6jqf4m/AACsQeUCVB8Fvcl-dubfePKIa?dl=0

Great news! Hopefully they will be systematically targeted by the Bernie wing whenever they're up for reelection.

[Antonio the Sixth]

For those interested...some leaked (or claims to have leaked) the DNC Chair Ballot voting list showing how each state and member voted in the first and second round:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mi9sac97q6jqf4m/AACsQeUCVB8Fvcl-dubfePKIa?dl=0

Great news! Hopefully they will be systematically targeted by the Bernie wing whenever they're up for reelection.

I hope they're only targeted if Perez does a poor job running the DNC. If he does an excellent job, the people who voted for him shouldn't face punishment for doing a good thing

LOL no. This is not about Perez.

[Antonio the Sixth]

For those interested...some leaked (or claims to have leaked) the DNC Chair Ballot voting list showing how each state and member voted in the first and second round:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mi9sac97q6jqf4m/AACsQeUCVB8Fvcl-dubfePKIa?dl=0

Great news! Hopefully they will be systematically targeted by the Bernie wing whenever they're up for reelection.

I hope they're only targeted if Perez does a poor job running the DNC. If he does an excellent job, the people who voted for him shouldn't face punishment for doing a good thing

LOL no. This is not about Perez.

Why should they be punished if Perez does a great job?  With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense.

Voting for Perez is just a symptom, it's not the ill itself.