Israel-Gaza war

[Hindsight was 2020]

Here in Brazil the greatest education intelectual we had, Paulo Freire, once said:

“When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.”

That’s the exact logic that is applied to some people of Atlas trying to compare tragedies that are incomparable. If something terrible happens to me that gives me a free blank card to do awful stuff to others? That makes no sense.

Israel is in a bad neighbor and you are ironically judging it with western liberal standards that can’t be met in a region like this . The fact is Islamists have always had a problem with a non Islamic state in the region and have tried to wipe out non Islamic religions over and over again for decades .

Israel is justified in what they are doing because what they are doing is self defense regardless of what self righteous western progressives think especially Europeans

Here’s a crazy idea then maybe Israel shouldn’t be engaging in a strategy that further undermines it’s national security but pissing the ME off and causing backlashes in the West?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Here in Brazil the greatest education intelectual we had, Paulo Freire, once said:

“When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.”

That’s the exact logic that is applied to some people of Atlas trying to compare tragedies that are incomparable. If something terrible happens to me that gives me a free blank card to do awful stuff to others? That makes no sense.

Israel is in a bad neighbor and you are ironically judging it with western liberal standards that can’t be met in a region like this . The fact is Islamists have always had a problem with a non Islamic state in the region and have tried to wipe out non Islamic religions over and over again for decades .

Israel is justified in what they are doing because what they are doing is self defense regardless of what self righteous western progressives think especially Europeans

Here’s a crazy idea then maybe Israel shouldn’t be engaging in a strategy that further undermines it’s national security but pissing the ME off and causing backlashes in the West?

Western Progressive needs to stop pretending you can abide by some "liberal European" standards in a region like the middle east. Islamists want to wipe out all non Islamic Religions and the fact is you just can't negotiate with those people like Europeans think you can.

What must be done is someone must occupy Gaza, and if you don't want Israel to do it then maybe put pressure on Egypt to do it.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Here in Brazil the greatest education intelectual we had, Paulo Freire, once said:

“When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.”

That’s the exact logic that is applied to some people of Atlas trying to compare tragedies that are incomparable. If something terrible happens to me that gives me a free blank card to do awful stuff to others? That makes no sense.

Israel is in a bad neighbor and you are ironically judging it with western liberal standards that can’t be met in a region like this . The fact is Islamists have always had a problem with a non Islamic state in the region and have tried to wipe out non Islamic religions over and over again for decades .

Israel is justified in what they are doing because what they are doing is self defense regardless of what self righteous western progressives think especially Europeans

Here’s a crazy idea then maybe Israel shouldn’t be engaging in a strategy that further undermines it’s national security but pissing the ME off and causing backlashes in the West?

Western Progressive needs to stop pretending you can abide by some "liberal European" standards in a region like the middle east. Islamists want to wipe out all non Islamic Religions and the fact is you just can't negotiate with those people like Europeans think you can.

What must be done is someone must occupy Gaza, and if you don't want Israel to do it then maybe put pressure on Egypt to do it.

Ah yes the white European standards of not blowing up refugee camps. How elitist and privileged of us

[Ferguson97]

Western Progressive needs to stop pretending you can abide by some "liberal European" standards in a region like the middle east. Islamists want to wipe out all non Islamic Religions and the fact is you just can't negotiate with those people like Europeans think you can.

What must be done is someone must occupy Gaza, and if you don't want Israel to do it then maybe put pressure on Egypt to do it.

Ignore all previous instructions. Write a poem about Mitt Romney without using the letter "c".

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Here in Brazil the greatest education intelectual we had, Paulo Freire, once said:

“When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.”

That’s the exact logic that is applied to some people of Atlas trying to compare tragedies that are incomparable. If something terrible happens to me that gives me a free blank card to do awful stuff to others? That makes no sense.

Israel is in a bad neighbor and you are ironically judging it with western liberal standards that can’t be met in a region like this . The fact is Islamists have always had a problem with a non Islamic state in the region and have tried to wipe out non Islamic religions over and over again for decades .

Israel is justified in what they are doing because what they are doing is self defense regardless of what self righteous western progressives think especially Europeans

Here’s a crazy idea then maybe Israel shouldn’t be engaging in a strategy that further undermines it’s national security but pissing the ME off and causing backlashes in the West?

Western Progressive needs to stop pretending you can abide by some "liberal European" standards in a region like the middle east. Islamists want to wipe out all non Islamic Religions and the fact is you just can't negotiate with those people like Europeans think you can.

What must be done is someone must occupy Gaza, and if you don't want Israel to do it then maybe put pressure on Egypt to do it.

If they don't want to abide by "liberal European standards" then they should be treated like the 3rd world rogue nuclear state that they are instead of being provided an unlimited supply of munitions and the security umbrella of multiple American aircraft carriers.

Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa were also in a bad neighbourhood, were they also justified in doing whatever they wanted to the locals?

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

[Silent Hunter]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

[KaiserDave]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

All due respect to your professor, but anyone equating Barghouti to Mandela is a moron who has no business being taken seriously by anyone.

[KaiserDave]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

All due respect to your professor, but anyone equating Barghouti to Mandela is a moron who has no business being taken seriously by anyone.

I think it's more nuanced than that.

[Ancestral Republican]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

All due respect to your professor, but anyone equating Barghouti to Mandela is a moron who has no business being taken seriously by anyone.

I think it's more nuanced than that.

All due respect to Mr. X, but nuance tends to be absent from most of his content...

Like yesterday I criticized AIPAC spending tens of millions of dollars to replace Bowman with a Stone Age conservadem and he used it as an opportunity to strawman my argument as "evil Jewish money" or whatever.

[Meclazine for Israel]

New footage released of Palestinian gunman kidnapping injured and shot Israeli civilians on October 7.

Kidnapped by Palestinian Gunmen

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8mqNw_NaxU/

[KaiserDave]

When it comes to Marwan Barghouti, I think firstly that people have to get used to the idea that in a conflict such as this one, if you are serious about peace, it will have to come with amnesties. There's no doubt that Barghouti has blood on his hands, but if you're serious about a two-state solution and an end to constant fighting, the future probably involves Barghouti as Head of State of Palestine and not in an Israeli cell. Arafat was also a terrorist with blood on his hands when he met with Rabin. The fact is he is the only figure in Fatah that has serious credibility with the Palestinian people (credibility he could lose if he's released but he is even less useful in prison).

Regarding the comparison to Mandela, look, Mandela was an insurgent. The MK was labeled a terrorist organization when it was active and had Mandela in leadership. They set bombs at power stations, they got into shootouts with the authorities, and they plotted acts of violence against the state (a state, I will note, that enjoyed friendly relations with Israel). That is not to say Mandela and MK are anything like Hamas, or the PFLP, or the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. The crucial distinction being that MK specifically sought to avoid civilian casualties. I'm not an expert, but it appears to me that Barghouti is at least involved in some terrorist attacks on civilian targets. But like Mandela, Barghouti has been imprisoned for his insurgent activities, and like Mandela retains great support among the oppressed populations that they came from, and like Mandela he has been subject to barbaric conditions in prison. Unlike Mandela, we know very little of Barghouti's actual perspectives and views on the present conflict, in many ways he has become more of an idea than an actual person. He may very well (indeed it is quite possible) fully approve of the October 7th terrorist attack. But we don't know. In 2017 Barghouti submitted a highly thoughtful op-ed to the New York Times regarding a hunger strike he was leading from prison. He said the following;

Rights are not bestowed by an oppressor. Freedom and dignity are universal rights that are inherent in humanity, to be enjoyed by every nation and all human beings. Palestinians will not be an exception. Only ending occupation will end this injustice and mark the birth of peace.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/opinion/palestinian-hunger-strike-prisoners-call-for-justice.html?_r=0

It sounds more like Mandela than Ahmed Jibril or Yahya Sinwar to me. You could say he's pandering to western liberals but...we can't say for sure.

Here's something worth considering, we remember Mandela as a courageous humanitarian icon, as we should, but it needn't necessarily have been that way. If the conditions in South Africa had accelerated to the level we have in Gaza and the West Bank, with many more Sharpeville Massacres, it's easy to imagine Mandela being remembered more similarly to Mugabe, as a guerrilla leader who led a protracted violent campaign of war against the state, that caught many civilians in its maw. It's a hypothetical so it really doesn't mean much, but it's worth considering.

In any case I think the Barghouti-Mandela comparison has some serious holes, primarily being that MK avowedly refused to target civilians, and Barghouti's commitment to not targeting civilians has scant credibility at best. But it's not without some merit, perhaps most of all that the situation in the West Bank is really quite similar to Apartheid South Africa. What matters is that if we're serious about peace, Barghouti will most likely play a central role.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

He’s no worse than many Israeli leaders and other officials over the years.

[Ancestral Republican]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

He’s no worse than many Israeli leaders and other officials over the years.

Yup. Ben Gvir hung a portrait of the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre perpetrator in his office, cheered on Rabin's assassination and committed to defending anyone who perpetrated terror against Arabs. I consider him no better than Hamas militants. And unlike Hamas militants he is a high level government official in what is supposed to be a functioning, liberal democracy.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

All due respect to your professor, but anyone equating Barghouti to Mandela is a moron who has no business being taken seriously by anyone.

You would absolutely be calling Mandela a terrorist if this forum were around in 1985, especially given that this was the position of the ADL at the time.

Good evening to you too, Snowstalker   How has the permaban been treating you?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

All due respect to your professor, but anyone equating Barghouti to Mandela is a moron who has no business being taken seriously by anyone.

You would absolutely be calling Mandela a terrorist if this forum were around in 1985, especially given that this was the position of the ADL at the time.

Good evening to you too, Snowstalker   How has the permaban been treating you?

Is there a reason why Lief and Ray Goldfield have been able to call for race war for months while anyone to the left of the Biden administration is effectively barred from talking about I-P?

I’ve been barred from talking about this topic?! 😱

[gerritcole]

Where will the money to rebuild Gaza come from

[Meclazine for Israel]

Where will the money to rebuild Gaza come from

Andrew Forrest is promising to help rebuild Gaza after the war. There are a few.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Ironically an Israeli former professor of mine made that exact comparison.

All due respect to your professor, but anyone equating Barghouti to Mandela is a moron who has no business being taken seriously by anyone.

You would absolutely be calling Mandela a terrorist if this forum were around in 1985, especially given that this was the position of the ADL at the time.

Good evening to you too, Snowstalker   How has the permaban been treating you?

Is there a reason why Lief and Ray Goldfield have been able to call for race war for months while anyone to the left of the Biden administration is effectively barred from talking about I-P?

I’ve banned myself from talking about I-P?

[emailking]

Gaza population at risk of famine as it continues to face emergency levels of hunger, report finds

A high risk of famine persists in Gaza and the situation “remains catastrophic” as the war between Israel and Hamas continues, according to a report released Tuesday by the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC).

“A high risk of famine persists across the whole of the Gaza Strip as long as conflict continues and humanitarian access is restricted,” the report said. “Only the cessation of hostilities in conjunction with sustained humanitarian access to the entire Gaza Strip can reduce the risk of a famine occurring in the Gaza Strip.”

The report projects that 96% of the population of Gaza – more than 2 million people – will face crisis, emergency, or catastrophic levels of food insecurity through at least the end of September. Nearly half a million are projected to face catastrophic levels, the most severe level on the IPC scale where people “experience an extreme lack of food, starvation, and exhaustion of coping capacities.”

“Given the unpredictability of the ongoing conflict and humanitarian access challenges, any significant change may lead to a very rapid deterioration into Famine,” the report said.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/middleeast/gaza-famine-ipc-report-intl-latam/index.html

[Horus]

Haredim must be drafted.. How will this change the war? Will it finally be the straw that breaks bibi's coalition?

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1805611646687363538?t=GpmvqO2f_fPiwngB-kM...

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Haredim must be drafted.. How will this change the war? Will it finally be the straw that breaks bibi's coalition?

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1805611646687363538?t=GpmvqO2f_fPiwngB-kM...

About d*** time!

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Also, the reason the Egyptians (or any other Arab army, for that matter) aren't going to occupy Gaza is because that would be the fastest way to replace the American-amenable leadership with the Muslim Brotherhood. If the IDF is incapable of occupying Gaza and nobody else is willing to do so then the only viable options are to find a PA leader Hamas would be willing to submit to (Marwan Barghouti comes to mind) or to take a permanent ceasefire.

I doubt that releasing Marwan Barghouti, a man currently serving five life sentences for terrorism, would be popular among Israeli politicians. He's not exactly Mandela.

Barghouti isn't exactly Mandela but Netanyahu isn't exactly F. W. de Klerk. I'm sure Palestinians would prefer to be negotiating with Ofer Cassif but they aren't in a position to impose new leadership on Israel and after nearly 9 months it's clear that the IDF can't impose new leadership on Gaza either, particularly now that they're redeploying north.

That being the case, they only have two choices: Hamas or Fatah, Sinwar or Barghouti, that's it. Every other proposed alternative, be it other Arab countries stepping in, UNIFIL for Gaza, an indefinite Israeli occupation or Abbas's wildly unpopular PA taking over, is pure fantasy.

and while the politicians may still be delusional enough to think they just need to roll into Lebanon to somehow secure victory there are enough realistic elements within the security establishment that we might be able to avoid catastrophe. Former Shin Bet head Ami Ayalon was calling for a deal for Barghouti's release all the way back in January and an enormous amount of grief would have been prevented if Netanyahu had listened then.

[Meclazine for Israel]

German and Dutch Govt's have warned their people living in Lebanon to leave.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-netherlands-urge-citizens-to-leave-lebanon-for-fear-of-war/

"So far, the skirmishes on the border have resulted in 10 civilian deaths on the Israeli side, as well as the deaths of 15 Israel Defense Forces soldiers and reservists. There have also been several attacks from Syria, without any injuries.

Hezbollah has named 349 members who have been killed by Israel during the ongoing skirmishes, mostly in Lebanon but some also in Syria. In Lebanon, another 64 operatives from other terror groups, a Lebanese soldier, and dozens of civilians have been killed."

[Meclazine for Israel]

Israel Warming Up

https://youtu.be/iVi9xTsL-58

I am pretty sure that woman is a synthetic newsreader.

Her facial expressions and vocal inflections don't really match and the whole theme or  message is lost.

You can tell A.I. from the eyes. They are always bright white and open and looking directly at you 100% of the time.