Israel-Gaza war

[Hindsight was 2020]

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.

Bold of you to assume any of NATO country except Turkey would ever be dumb enough to try and enforce this.  And it’s not like Netanyahu or Gallant have any compelling reason to go to Turkey, so Turkey won’t get a chance to attempt to do so.

“The ICC is just bullying Israel! Why do they indict Hamas too!?!”
*ICC also indicts Hamas*
“Reeeeeeeeee”

The ICC also indicting three Hamas leaders means simply that.  Obviously, I have no issue with issuing arrest warrants for Haniyeh, Sinwar, and Deif, but that doesn’t mean the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu aren’t nonsense that should be tossed in the garbage bin.

Also, pro-tip: Your attempts at drive by gotcha posts will work better if they’re based on something other than imaginary straw men.  

Hard to call it a strawman when the comment above is you saying it’s fine that the ICC indicted people I don’t like but how dare they do it to people I do

[Hindsight was 2020]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

That would simply END the ICC once and for all, with mass defections.

Which I am very in favor of, as a nationalist. It’s just fun to watch that the same people here (not referring to you, I am talking about red avis) posing as liberal internationalists only when it’s on THEIR national interests - ie: Putin being condemned - and then suddenly turning against international institutions whenever it’s NOT, like Netanyahu being condemned.

I’ve said this before, but we’re not in XX century anymore. USA will be forced to choose between being an interventionist + internationalist power or a non-interventionist + nationalist power.

World is becoming way more decentralized for it to successfully maintain its natural instinct of interventionist + nationalist without expecting major setbacks in return. And it’s becoming more and more clear that all of you guys - not just Trumpists, but Democrats too - will eventually choose to give up on your internationalist prestige first (and which gives you credibility that allows for interventionism) in order to protect national interests.

I'm not a nationalist by any means, but yeah "liberal internationalism is good until it no longer is". That's very much true. This forum (or portions of this forum) can be ridicilously hypocrite sometimes.

Probably everyone cheered the decision to issue a warrant for Putin, but now that one has been issued for Netanyahu we even hear calls here to ignore it, and that nations that decide not to ignore it Israel should declare war against.

You can't even make this up anymore. The credibility some had is completely gone and the shamelessness of some users is just hilarious to watch.

Unlike people like me who has stand morally consistent on both conflicts so I can hate all of you hypocrites 😊

[Hindsight was 2020]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

That would simply END the ICC once and for all, with mass defections.

Which I am very in favor of, as a nationalist. It’s just fun to watch that the same people here (not referring to you, I am talking about red avis) posing as liberal internationalists only when it’s on THEIR national interests - ie: Putin being condemned - and then suddenly turning against international institutions whenever it’s NOT, like Netanyahu being condemned.

I’ve said this before, but we’re not in XX century anymore. USA will be forced to choose between being an interventionist + internationalist power or a non-interventionist + nationalist power.

World is becoming way more decentralized for it to successfully maintain its natural instinct of interventionist + nationalist without expecting major setbacks in return. And it’s becoming more and more clear that all of you guys - not just Trumpists, but Democrats too - will eventually choose to give up on your internationalist prestige first (and which gives you credibility that allows for interventionism) in order to protect national interests.

I'm not a nationalist by any means, but yeah "liberal internationalism is good until it no longer is". That's very much true. This forum (or portions of this forum) can be ridicilously hypocrite sometimes.

Probably everyone cheered the decision to issue a warrant for Putin, but now that one has been issued for Netanyahu we even hear calls here to ignore it, and that nations that decide not to ignore it Israel should declare war against.

You can't even make this up anymore. The credibility some had is completely gone and the shamelessness of some users is just hilarious to watch.

Unlike people like me who has stand morally consistent on both conflicts so I can hate all of you hypocrites 😊

?

Explain your positions (and from the beginning) and what you think i am?

That wasn’t necessarily a dig at you personally as I have no idea what your thoughts on the Russo-Ukraine war are just a more general vent.

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1793628894245118205?t=mdaP7b0yTlOUdKdAELIf2-B...
The most moral army in the world.

Clearly the only people in the world who have a problem with Israel’s conduct are pro-Hamas or something 🙄

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1794838600041001106?t=sgI2X4pydY7wJ1AVkCp...

God I can’t wait for the Israel can do no wrong crowd defending this one

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/faytuks/status/1794860319728075076?s=12

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1796595966835081563?s=12
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1796596756739915954?s=12
Please 🙏

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1796604827369439327
Nice one Biden! Didn’t think he had it in him to fire back at Bibi

[Hindsight was 2020]

Meanwhile in Ireland

Tell us what you really think.

Genuine question, is there anyway to boycott Israeli goods that wouldn't be anti-semitic in the eyes of firmly zionist people? I've stopped buying Sabra Hummus after a Muslim friend told me about it (this was a year or two before October 7th, btw) sooo are my Hummus choices innately anti-semitic?

I have never understood the fierceness against BDS on its face, especially places like Texas that literally make it illegal to collectively boycott essentially, which is funny cause they love corporate personhood in every other facet.

Any way, I don't really expect an answer but these allusions are fairly gross.

Absolutely not especially for bad faith people like Meclazine who has post anti-Semitic memes about Zelensky and only supports Israel because he really likes seeing Muslims get blown up

[Hindsight was 2020]

Those two posts back to back... Good lord.

And no, no one cares about what you buy, but there is no non-antisemitic way to spearhead a campaign against the purchase of Israeli goods, especially since it's spun out into dozens of cases of violent vandalism.

So you a literally arguing the “any form of criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic” idea

[Hindsight was 2020]

Those two posts back to back... Good lord.

And no, no one cares about what you buy, but there is no non-antisemitic way to spearhead a campaign against the purchase of Israeli goods, especially since it's spun out into dozens of cases of violent vandalism.

So you a literally arguing the “any form of criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic” idea

I get that it's challenging for the movement that the majority of its tactics are previously associated with pogromists and Nazis, but that's not really the Jews' problem.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Attacking Lebanon is so beyond stupid and counterproductive to Israeli security.

[Hindsight was 2020]

A new proposal for what defines a Zionist in 2024: any person who didn’t feel a burst of joy, hope, or grim satisfaction on October 7 as news reached the world of what Hamas did. I think that reaction unites the people who determine and define anti-Zionism today.

there are plenty of people here and throughout the country who managed to demonstrate that you can be anger at Israel’s behavior and not condone Hamas

[Hindsight was 2020]

A new proposal for what defines a Zionist in 2024: any person who didn’t feel a burst of joy, hope, or grim satisfaction on October 7 as news reached the world of what Hamas did. I think that reaction unites the people who determine and define anti-Zionism today.

Piss off there are plenty of people here and throughout the country who managed to demonstrate that you can be anger at Israel’s behavior and not condone Hamas

How did you feel on October 7 when you heard the news? I’m trying to understand which angle you’re coming from on my proposal.

You can viscerally reject Netanyahu and his allies and think Israel has gone too far and has no plan for victory - and still be a Zionist.

Also how Israel treats Palestinians is disgusting and they should be pressured into changing their policies but the Hamas response of killing civilians doesn’t help anyone

Hamas is posting tons of images to telegram of Israeli civilians they killed in cold blood. They have no idea how bad they f-ed themselves and the pr blow to sympathies in the West this will be

[Hindsight was 2020]

As a result of the 1948 war, large migrations of Jews occurred. But since then, the populations have evaporated.

Still doesn’t give be Israel the right to do war crimes in Gaza

[Hindsight was 2020]

Still doesn’t give be Israel the right to do war crimes in Gaza

No, it’s Hamas’s refusal to accept defeat and continuing to drag this hopeless war on that justifies this tragic urban warfare, not the map of ethnic cleansing of Jews. You’re right about that.

The map does nearly illustrate the hypocrisy and tunnel vision of most criticism of the existence of the state of Israel and accusations of ethnic cleansing, the Nakba was a unique incident of Jewish treachery in a region of peaceful diversity etc. Lots of people protesting Israel’s existence are comfortable with ethnic cleansing when it’s Jews, Yazidis, Copts, even Sunni Muslims in Syria as the victims. It’s also corrective to the very common misconception that all Israelis are Ashkenazim with U.S. or German passports.

Just stop, blowing up refugee camps and firing at first aid workers or people trying to surrender doesn’t fall under “tragic urban warfare”