Ireland bans handguns
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Author Topic: Ireland bans handguns  (Read 5179 times)
Mechaman
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« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2009, 11:46:21 AM »


Classy.

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Yes, you might well have read it, but it's quite clear that you didn't read it.
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Is it?

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Because I'm not a paranoid fool.

I want to say that I'm sorry about the moron comment, it was a gut reaction to being called a liar.
Second, how the hell are we really supposed to know George Orwell's intent with 1984? As for fearmongering and hatemongering, what do you call the Minute of Hate (or however long it is)? How does that not qualify as hatemongering?
Thirdly, it's a shame that we're reduced to throwing around insults on this one issue. Let's man up and let bygones be bygones. I'm sorry for calling you a moron, you're sorry for saying I didn't read 1984 when I spent a ridiculous amount of my free time just to do an assignment over it.
Truce?
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2009, 11:50:24 AM »

You know I don't think it would occur to most Irish people to use a gun in case of self-defense. Trust me, Americans, your thought patterns on this issue are unusual.

And while our crime rates are very high by historic standards, but as Jfern once pointed out here we still have less homicides than many Californian Cities much smaller in size.

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Repeat: No-one Cares. No-one considers this a 'rights' issue. Ireland is not America

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LOL@the idea of Ireland being a police state. As Jas pointed out the police here aren't even armed, and there are much stronger restrictions on the usage of personal data in trials than there are in the United States.

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You are an ass clown, you know that?

Also I'm willing to bet alot of money that the government will not lose a single vote over this. FFS it wasn't even a top story on either RTE or The Irish Times (I've checked). Repeat: NO. ONE. CARES.

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Comical.

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Ireland has a much, more lower crime rate than the United States. Even the tower blocks and forgotten neo-slums of North West and West Inner City Dublin have much lower crime rates than their American equivalents. Though admittely there is a lack of a race factor here among other things. So guns clearly aren't a factor here at all.

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Did you ever consider that the reason most people don't want to own a gun is due to the message that it sends out, at least in your own libertarian ideology. That the world is so scary than one needs a gun to protect oneself? Again this is NOT PART OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF MOST PEOPLE HERE. THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS IS PROBABLY LOWER DOWN MOST PEOPLE'S RIGHTS THAN THE RIGHT TO SPIT USED CHEWING GUM ONTO COBBLESTONE STREETS. And that is no exaggeration.

This is a complete non-issue; message to Americans: The world isn't all like America.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2009, 11:54:22 AM »
« Edited: July 30, 2009, 11:57:53 AM by Mechman »

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Wow how mature of you!

It's clear that this issue brings out the worst in people so I'm going to stop and shut up because it seems like the more I try to plea my case the more hostile people become. For the sake of forum civility, I'll stop trying to change the mind of people who are already set in their ways.

Such a shame though, because in a few days I might be agreeing with these people over an issue.
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2009, 11:57:40 AM »

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Wow how mature of you!

It's clear that this issue brings out the worst in people so I'm going to stop and shut up because it seems like the more I try to plea my case the more hostile people become. For the sake of forum civility, I'll stop trying to change the mind of people who apparently don't give a damn about civil liberties.

Such a shame though, because in a few days I might be agreeing with these people over an issue.

Thanks for ignoring all my other points.

And that was only way of expressing how dumb that post was. I expect such ignorance from BRTD but others...
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Mechaman
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« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2009, 12:06:04 PM »

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Wow how mature of you!

It's clear that this issue brings out the worst in people so I'm going to stop and shut up because it seems like the more I try to plea my case the more hostile people become. For the sake of forum civility, I'll stop trying to change the mind of people who apparently don't give a damn about civil liberties.

Such a shame though, because in a few days I might be agreeing with these people over an issue.

Thanks for ignoring all my other points.

And that was only way of expressing how dumb that post was. I expect such ignorance from BRTD but others...

FOr what it's worth Ghyl, I forgive you.
I see this issue now as that of completely different perspectives. I can't blame you for thinking the way you do because like you said almost everybody you know doesn't care about this particular issue. Knowing that now I know why support for these kinds of issues is so high, whether I like it or not. I just think it's sad how emotional we all got over this particular issue.
Yes I did read your other posts, and I can understand how you would reach those conclusions though I may disagree with them.
Anyway, sorry about my part in this huge bitchfest.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2009, 12:30:41 PM »

I think this thread shows the gun culture in action.
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Bono
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« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2009, 05:31:08 PM »

Yea Gully, thanks for ignoring all my posts and then complaining no one replies to you.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2009, 09:24:21 PM »

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/ahern-signs-new-gun-control-act-into-law-419908.html

Ahern signs new gun control act into law
24/07/2009 - 11:29:00

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern has signed new gun control legislation into law.

The act bans handguns in Ireland and also introduces a requirement for referees, background medical checks and standards for the safe keeping of guns in the home for all firearms licence applicants.

It also makes it an offence to brandish a realistic imitation firearm in public.

Mr Ahern says the legislation is designed to halt the emergence of a gun culture in Ireland.


Oh noes a gun culture!

Tbh I thought they were already banned. Guess Northern Ireland remains the sole holdout in the British Isles. Kind of ironic if you think about it.

Great news Smiley

So says the man who comes from a country which will rip down anti Olympics posters.
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2009, 07:07:03 AM »
« Edited: July 31, 2009, 11:51:09 AM by Bionste Corriuce »

Makes me think of the remark of a US politician after what happened in Virginia Tech, maybe it was Bush but not sure: teachers should have a weapon in class to defend themselves.

Ok, now why in Europe, in countries more or less demographically and socially similar to US, like France, UK, or Germany, people don't have that claim? Why in the same time the criminal rates are higher in US than in these countries in which people can't have that wonderful defense that is a firearm? What is that?

Take your pick as to the underlying cause of crime in the U.S. (drugs, socio-economic, etc), but it's not the ownership of guns by law abiding citizens.

Oh and skip the OMGZ WE NEED TO GET RID OF GUNZ CAUZ OF MADMEN1111!  That rallying cry is old an boring.  If you want to go down that road, ask the families on the Long Island Railroad massacre if they wish their loved ones were allowed to carry?  That guy would have got one shot off in Texas, that's why he went to Long Island.  He knew no on e would shoot back.

OK. Now there may be some differences between Europe and US societies that can explain that Europe handles better a society without guns for self-defense. Though for the matter of drugs and socio-economics, there may be some differences but not that huge.

But, sorry, I'll stay with my principle, and "traditions", cultures, societies, are here to evolve.

You're here, all the time, with "Law abiding citizens". Pardon, but do "Law abiding citizens" born and die like that? Would it be, or not, possible that someone who is a law abiding citizen one day, turns into something else latter? Then, you can't decide to release guns to "Law abiding citizens", you just release guns to human beings, and once they have it, then you have to hope that they will remain "Law abiding citizens". US releases guns to much more human beings than other Western countries, and thus has by far the highest rates of homicides of these countries. Look where is the US, it is the double of the first western country, Finland.

So, now, either you keep that way, considering everyone can attack you with a gun and thus you need one to defend yourself, the fact that guns are easily released encourages that way. Or you decide that this is enough with this, and decides to release guns far less easily than now. Maybe that if less people can easily have a gun , there will be less people to threaten the other ones with it. Thus there will be less possibility for a "Law abiding citizen" to turn into a criminal, just because once he had been tempted by this, the gun was here, let's ago. Thus also there will be less frightened people susceptible to buy a gun, thus less possibility for a frightened person to take its gun and shoot one day he loses a bit his control in such or such situation, because afraid or nervous or else, you never know, it's something that can happen to everyone. You know, when I watched Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore, I was thinking: "Oh man, that guy is unfair here and here and here", there were just a few points on which I found him relevant, the biggest one was: we shouldn't so much easily release guns in a society in which the fear is so spread.

Then, yes. Such a bill can't be decided like that, passed in Congress and "that's cool now we've a good gun-control". Such a decision has to come from the society, from a strong psychological movement, from average people who decide that this is enough now, and it has to be transformed by strong laws. Other than that, it would mean nothing. It's your society to choose the way it prefers.
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BRTD
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« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2009, 10:43:19 AM »

Makes me think of the remark of a US politician after what happened in Virginia Tech, maybe it was Bush but not sure: teachers should have a weapon in class to defend themselves.

Ok, now why in Europe, in countries more or less demographically and socially similar to US, like France, UK, or Germany, people don't have that claim? Why in the same time the criminal rates are higher in US than in these countries in which people can't have that wonderful defense that is a firearm? What is that?

Take your pick as to the underlying cause of crime in the U.S. (drugs, socio-economic, etc), but it's not the ownership of guns by law abiding citizens.

Oh and skip the OMGZ WE NEED TO GET RID OF GUNZ CAUZ OF MADMEN1111!  That rallying cry is old an boring.  If you want to go down that road, ask the families on the Long Island Railroad massacre if they wish their loved ones were allowed to carry?  That guy would have got one shot off in Texas, that's why he went to Long Island.  He knew no on e would shoot back.

OK. Now there may be some differences between Europe and US societies that can explain that Europe handles better a society without guns for self-defense. Though for the matter of drugs and socio-economics, there may be some differences but not that huge.

But, sorry, I'll stay with my principle, and "traditions", cultures, societies, are here to evolve.

You're here, all the time, with "Law abiding citizens". Pardon, but do "Law abiding citizens" born and die like that? Would it be, or not, possible that someone who is a law abiding citizen one day, turns into something else latter? Then, you can't decide to release guns to "Law abiding citizens", you just release guns to human beings, and once they have it, then you have to hope that they will remain "Law abiding citizens". US releases guns to much more human beings than other Western countries, and thus has by far the highest rates of homicides of these countries. Look where is the US, it is the double of the first western country, Finland.

So considering the US is only #24, and considering some of the countries ahead of it, it's obvious that more is at work here than gun laws.

Finland actually has some pretty lax gun laws and high rate of ownership too. Oh, and note where Switzerland is on that list.
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ChrisJG777
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« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2009, 02:32:11 PM »

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/ahern-signs-new-gun-control-act-into-law-419908.html

Ahern signs new gun control act into law
24/07/2009 - 11:29:00

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern has signed new gun control legislation into law.

The act bans handguns in Ireland and also introduces a requirement for referees, background medical checks and standards for the safe keeping of guns in the home for all firearms licence applicants.

It also makes it an offence to brandish a realistic imitation firearm in public.

Mr Ahern says the legislation is designed to halt the emergence of a gun culture in Ireland.


Oh noes a gun culture!

Tbh I thought they were already banned. Guess Northern Ireland remains the sole holdout in the British Isles. Kind of ironic if you think about it.

Great news Smiley

So says the man who comes from a country which will rip down anti Olympics posters.

Now where did you get that B.S from?  Roll Eyes

Seriously, what pisses me off is how some people (as evidenced here) seem to think that if their country handles a particular issue one way, all other countries should do the same.  Look, different countries have different cultures, therefore issues should be handled accordingly.  One size does not fit all.  Handgun bans may not work in the US, but that doesn't mean they don't elsewhere.  Gun control ≠ Fascist state, for all of those who've made claims along that vein.  Roll Eyes
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patrick1
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« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2009, 02:50:35 PM »

To echo several other posters, It seems to me that a democracy should be able to pass laws that have the consent of the governed.  There is nothing constitutional against this nor would I argue that gun ownership is an inalienable right. 
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2009, 03:00:02 PM »

Yea Gully, thanks for ignoring all my posts and then complaining no one replies to you.

What precisely do you wish for me to respond to exactly. I have already covered the "previous gun laws prevented the emergence of gun ownership" argument I think.
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Bono
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« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2009, 03:14:44 PM »

Yea Gully, thanks for ignoring all my posts and then complaining no one replies to you.

What precisely do you wish for me to respond to exactly. I have already covered the "previous gun laws prevented the emergence of gun ownership" argument I think.

Where?
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2009, 03:30:06 PM »


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Did you ever consider that the reason most people don't want to own a gun is due to the message that it sends out, at least in your own libertarian ideology. That the world is so scary than one needs a gun to protect oneself? Again this is NOT PART OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF MOST PEOPLE HERE. THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS IS PROBABLY LOWER DOWN MOST PEOPLE'S RIGHTS THAN THE RIGHT TO SPIT USED CHEWING GUM ONTO COBBLESTONE STREETS. And that is no exaggeration.

Okay you ignore the caps (that was to emphasize the point to Mechaman).

Actually I recall now that I did know someone who owned a gun but it was a long time ago, a 12 year old gun nut and he was not from Ireland and certainly had no interest in protecting himself from crime.

The libertarian individual ideal is scary and actually nullifies individualism. The environment where one feels that one needs a gun to protect one's self is not one I'd like to live, and that is a good thing about the Republic of Ireland (yes, see, I can say good things about this country). People aren't suspicious. So why need a gun? (and to protect oneself from what exactly)
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Bono
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« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2009, 04:17:51 PM »


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Did you ever consider that the reason most people don't want to own a gun is due to the message that it sends out, at least in your own libertarian ideology. That the world is so scary than one needs a gun to protect oneself? Again this is NOT PART OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF MOST PEOPLE HERE. THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS IS PROBABLY LOWER DOWN MOST PEOPLE'S RIGHTS THAN THE RIGHT TO SPIT USED CHEWING GUM ONTO COBBLESTONE STREETS. And that is no exaggeration.

Okay you ignore the caps (that was to emphasize the point to Mechaman).

Actually I recall now that I did know someone who owned a gun but it was a long time ago, a 12 year old gun nut and he was not from Ireland and certainly had no interest in protecting himself from crime.

The libertarian individual ideal is scary and actually nullifies individualism. The environment where one feels that one needs a gun to protect one's self is not one I'd like to live, and that is a good thing about the Republic of Ireland (yes, see, I can say good things about this country). People aren't suspicious. So why need a gun? (and to protect oneself from what exactly)

Do you really think that people in the US are all  terrified and live lives of constant daily terror?
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2009, 04:35:26 PM »


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Did you ever consider that the reason most people don't want to own a gun is due to the message that it sends out, at least in your own libertarian ideology. That the world is so scary than one needs a gun to protect oneself? Again this is NOT PART OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF MOST PEOPLE HERE. THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS IS PROBABLY LOWER DOWN MOST PEOPLE'S RIGHTS THAN THE RIGHT TO SPIT USED CHEWING GUM ONTO COBBLESTONE STREETS. And that is no exaggeration.

Okay you ignore the caps (that was to emphasize the point to Mechaman).

Actually I recall now that I did know someone who owned a gun but it was a long time ago, a 12 year old gun nut and he was not from Ireland and certainly had no interest in protecting himself from crime.

The libertarian individual ideal is scary and actually nullifies individualism. The environment where one feels that one needs a gun to protect one's self is not one I'd like to live, and that is a good thing about the Republic of Ireland (yes, see, I can say good things about this country). People aren't suspicious. So why need a gun? (and to protect oneself from what exactly)

Do you really think that people in the US are all  terrified and live lives of constant daily terror?

Of course not. What I am saying is that there is an atmosphere of distrust which simply does not exist at home. Even today many (well off) people don't even bother to install a security alarm, even though they are easily available and is by far the most common form of home security. And I know a few victims of crime - theft usually; and while their reaction would often express a desire to be better protected that usually means moving to a better area, or that the windows were more secure, or that the alarm system was more effective/existent, or (this is most common) that the police were nearer or more efficient. I've never heard anyone express the sentiment that "I should have kept pepper spray/mace/a gun".

Actually I'm willing to bet if this law went to a referendum the overwhelming majority would support the law.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2009, 06:28:59 AM »

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/ahern-signs-new-gun-control-act-into-law-419908.html

Ahern signs new gun control act into law
24/07/2009 - 11:29:00

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern has signed new gun control legislation into law.

The act bans handguns in Ireland and also introduces a requirement for referees, background medical checks and standards for the safe keeping of guns in the home for all firearms licence applicants.

It also makes it an offence to brandish a realistic imitation firearm in public.

Mr Ahern says the legislation is designed to halt the emergence of a gun culture in Ireland.


Oh noes a gun culture!

Tbh I thought they were already banned. Guess Northern Ireland remains the sole holdout in the British Isles. Kind of ironic if you think about it.

Great news Smiley

So says the man who comes from a country which will rip down anti Olympics posters.

Now where did you get that B.S from?  Roll Eyes


https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=99657.0

Again, glad I live in an real free country.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2009, 09:57:49 PM »

bump for Chris JG
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Bono
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« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2009, 09:43:22 AM »

http://www.examiner.ie/business/snsncweysn/

Farmers urge minister to rethink restrictive new gun licensing laws

By Ray Ryan, Agribusiness Correspondent

Saturday, August 22, 2009

FARMERS have called on Justice Minister Dermot Ahern to rethink gun laws that have just been introduced.

No new handgun licences will be issued under the legislation, with limited exceptions for Olympic shooting sports.

A Garda superintendent can now inquire into the medical, including mental, health of an applicant.

Those seeking licences will need to have character references and proof of having installed secure storage for their guns.

IFA countryside chairman David Wilkinson said all gun owners are required to invest a huge amount of time satisfying complex and confusing red tape requirements.

"This new system is a logistical nightmare which does not recognise the outstanding record of those who have legally held firearms in this country in the past.

"IFA Countryside has been inundated with complaints from worried members who are seriously considering abandoning the sport altogether," he said.

Mr Wilkinson said the licensing system should aim to keep firearms out of the hands of undesirables while making it user friendly for legal users.

"IFA Countryside were at no point, during the firearms’ consultative panels meetings, informed that red tape of this degree was going to be introduced," he said.

Ireland East MEP Nessa Childers claimed the issue affected more than 236,000 lawful individuals during the recent elections.

She said there was an urgent need for a single, comprehensive, updated code on firearms to fight gun crime but the bill was too reactionary and showed a lack of foresight.

"There is no evidence to show that legally held guns have been used in the commission of any crime. I am, of course, in favour of bringing the law up to date in the matter of licensing of firearms, their security and their use.

"I am not in favour, however, of measures purportedly introduced to tackle crime being used instead to put legitimate sports clubs out of business."

Mr Ahern repeatedly stated, however, that the legislation was designed to halt the emergence of a gun culture in Ireland.

He disclosed that there are 1,800 legal handguns that could exceed 4,000 in three years time and this was unacceptable. "While I know the vast majority of licensed gun owners behave responsibly, my paramount concern must be the protection of the public, particularly against the background of the level of gun crime which is taking place."

 

This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, August 22, 2009

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/business/snsncweysn/#ixzz0P6z0YVQt




Oh no 4000 guns, that would be a veritable anarchy!


And as everyone knows, gangbangers go through the trouble of getting a handgun license.

What an hysterical nincompoop.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2009, 12:23:30 PM »

That's just typically fussy and incompetent Irish(?) bureaucracy for you.

But this is a smokescreen issue.
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