Ireland bans handguns
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  Ireland bans handguns
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Author Topic: Ireland bans handguns  (Read 5178 times)
Vepres
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2009, 06:40:47 PM »


In regards to Ireland headed towards a neofacistic state.

As of this moment I would like to disown my Irish heritage once and forever. From now on St. Patrick's Day will be known as "Statist Douchebag Day".

lolz, really?

Yes really.
If there is anything that pisses me off more than moralf****try it's statef****try. People aren't cattle whose only purpose is to eternally serve the evil collectivist state.

Nice threadjack.

Let's return to the subject of the thread.

Threadjack?
I think Ireland taking guns away from their populace and not even allowing them to have toy guns relates pretty well with statism. If they had done it "to reduce crime" or whatever I would just say "bad move". However, the sole purpose of what they did was to prevent the development of "a gun culture" which IMO is nothing but statist. When the government of any nation thinks people shouldn't have the right to defend their own lives that nation no longer cares about individual rights, it only cares about the self preservation of the state.

These guys probably aren't evil people. They probably have good intentions, but "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2009, 09:28:08 PM »

Why are people ignoring the only actual Irish person to post in this thread?
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MaxQue
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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2009, 10:10:30 PM »

Good news. The ''right'' to bear arms is one of the biggest aberrations of the world. The right to kill people, too? Don't say than you use them for hunting, nobody hunts with an handgun.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2009, 10:15:31 PM »

Good news. The ''right'' to bear arms is one of the biggest aberrations of the world. The right to kill people, too? Don't say than you use them for hunting, nobody hunts with an handgun.

The moment the police and military give up their weapons is when I'll give up mine. If that doesn't happen, I'll wait till the abolishment of the State, the Institute of slavery, genocide, and corruption, before I do.
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BRTD
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2009, 10:16:33 PM »

Good news. The ''right'' to bear arms is one of the biggest aberrations of the world. The right to kill people, too? Don't say than you use them for hunting, nobody hunts with an handgun.

I read once about a guy in St. Paul who was getting carjacked. He pulled out his handgun and killed the guy with a shot to his face. There's a valid use. Also various cases of women who have killed would-be rapists with them.
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BRTD
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2009, 10:20:23 PM »

Also I do find gun nuts and NRA types annoying. However I hate Ireland more.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2009, 10:27:24 PM »

Also I do find gun nuts and NRA types annoying. However I hate Ireland more.

Ditto.
The reason why I'm so viruently pro-gun isn't because I actually like guns, but because I don't put blind faith in the State, an institution that proves time and time again how corrupt it really is, to have the sole right to ownership of the means of self defense.
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BRTD
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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2009, 10:29:47 PM »

Well I didn't mean that I hate the State as an institution or anything by that comment though I don't have much faith in it. I meant I hate Ireland the country. I would tolerate this more in a half-decent country, though still oppose it.
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War on Want
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« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2009, 11:31:41 PM »

I disagree with this bill and its intentions but if what Gully said is true I do not understand the fuss libertarians are raising over this. Yes the bill is digustingly statist(god I hate using that word) but what do you expect from a government in a country that is failing?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2009, 11:36:02 PM »

I disagree with this bill and its intentions but if what Gully said is true I do not understand the fuss libertarians are raising over this. Yes the bill is digustingly statist(god I hate using that word) but what do you expect from a government in a country that is failing?

Good point. I forget how much fail Ireland is.
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BRTD
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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2009, 12:09:20 AM »

Ireland is an epic fail joke country. The whole place would be so much better off if the United Kindom of Great Britain and Ireland had never been dissolved.
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Lunar
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« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2009, 01:23:06 AM »

Good news. The ''right'' to bear arms is one of the biggest aberrations of the world. The right to kill people, too? Don't say than you use them for hunting, nobody hunts with an handgun.

Self-defense, I assume, is the implied right associated with hand-guns.
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Јas
Jas
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« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2009, 03:44:58 AM »

Just a few points.

1. Those who felt we had liberal gun control regulations before the passage of this Act obviously never paid any attantion to the Firearms Acts 1924, 1964, 1968, 1971, 1990 and 2006. This isn't in fact a very significant change to Irish gun control legislation.

2. Because it wasn't a major change, it isn't a significant story here - indeed it's generated more reaction on this thread than in the country as a whole. The only people who cared are those target shooting guys, who, I understand, have been mollified.

3. Technical quibble - the newspiece is incorrect. Dermot Ahern has no more authority to sign a bill into law than I have, only the President can sign bills into law. Ahern is entiteld to make certain regulations under the Act, which I understand he has not done yet.

4. As Gully says, just about nobody in the general populace has a gun anyway. I have no doubt that the people would hugely support gun control measures such as these anyway. Indeed, a more contentious debate would be whether ordinary police should be allowed to carry guns - something that would no doubt be seen as ridiculous in the US.

5.
Self-defense, I assume, is the implied right associated with hand-guns.

ftr, I'm not aware of any instances here where anyone has defended their actions by claiming they shot their handgun at someone else in self-defence.

6. BRTD and Mechman can now resume their mutual masturbation...
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Mechaman
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« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2009, 03:48:30 AM »

6. BRTD and Mechman can now resume their mutual masturbation...

Four hands are better than two!
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Lunar
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« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2009, 03:56:48 AM »

5.
Self-defense, I assume, is the implied right associated with hand-guns.

ftr, I'm not aware of any instances here where anyone has defended their actions by claiming they shot their handgun at someone else in self-defence.

Well, you're not aware of anyone owning a handgun, so it's understandable that you're also not aware of people using it for defense Smiley  Yeah, y'all are depicting them as so rare and niche that it's unlikely such a story would be common. 

But...in talking about the "right to own a hand-gun" -- I'm pretty sure that the basis is not hunting, the strawman I was responding to of someone believing in handguns for rabbit hunting or what have you.
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Јas
Jas
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2009, 04:20:22 AM »

5.
Self-defense, I assume, is the implied right associated with hand-guns.

ftr, I'm not aware of any instances here where anyone has defended their actions by claiming they shot their handgun at someone else in self-defence.

Well, you're not aware of anyone owning a handgun, so it's understandable that you're also not aware of people using it for defense Smiley  Yeah, y'all are depicting them as so rare and niche that it's unlikely such a story would be common. 

True. But I'd note that there are guns out there - gangland crime is a hot topic here now. It's the associoated gun crime that's at least partly what motivated this and other legislation (which has been much more questionable, IMO) recently. Such handguns would all have been illegally held anyway, so this law makes no real difference there.

But...in talking about the "right to own a hand-gun" -- I'm pretty sure that the basis is not hunting, the strawman I was responding to of someone believing in handguns for rabbit hunting or what have you.

Fair enough.
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Bono
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« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2009, 08:31:35 AM »

Why are people ignoring the only actual Irish person to post in this thread?

"We"'re not, I replied to you, you just didn't reply but.

But did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason you don't know anyone who owns guns is because, even prior to this law, there were so many oops to jump through to be able to own one that most people were just too discouraged to try, even if they would have bought one if the laws were similar to the US'?
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2009, 08:44:12 AM »

Banning guns on the other hand contributes to make a less violent society.

Yeah criminals obey bans.  Roll Eyes

Now only criminals wil have guns since they've been banned for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

Jackasses.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2009, 08:53:47 AM »
« Edited: July 30, 2009, 08:55:19 AM by Bionste Corriuce »

Makes me think of the remark of a US politician after what happened in Virginia Tech, maybe it was Bush but not sure: teachers should have a weapon in class to defend themselves.

Ok, now why in Europe, in countries more or less demographically and socially similar to US, like France, UK, or Germany, people don't have that claim? Why in the same time the criminal rates are higher in US than in these countries in which people can't have that wonderful defense that is a firearm? What is that?
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Јas
Jas
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2009, 09:16:02 AM »
« Edited: July 30, 2009, 09:19:59 AM by Jas »

Yeah criminals obey bans.  Roll Eyes

Now only criminals wil have guns since they've been banned for LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

Jackasses.

It was pretty much the case that only criminals had them anyway.
(Noting the previously mentioned farmers/target shooters/huntsmen exceptions who mostly have some form of rifle/shotgun - none of which are really held for defensive purposes.) And indeed, most police don't have guns either, they're pretty much the preserve of special response units.

The new law means that illegal possession will be more easily prosecuted and will have stronger penalties imposed.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2009, 10:17:33 AM »

Makes me think of the remark of a US politician after what happened in Virginia Tech, maybe it was Bush but not sure: teachers should have a weapon in class to defend themselves.

Ok, now why in Europe, in countries more or less demographically and socially similar to US, like France, UK, or Germany, people don't have that claim? Why in the same time the criminal rates are higher in US than in these countries in which people can't have that wonderful defense that is a firearm? What is that?

Take your pick as to the underlying cause of crime in the U.S. (drugs, socio-economic, etc), but it's not the ownership of guns by law abiding citizens.

Oh and skip the OMGZ WE NEED TO GET RID OF GUNZ CAUZ OF MADMEN1111!  That rallying cry is old an boring.  If you want to go down that road, ask the families on the Long Island Railroad massacre if they wish their loved ones were allowed to carry?  That guy would have got one shot off in Texas, that's why he went to Long Island.  He knew no on e would shoot back.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2009, 10:44:16 AM »

Makes me think of the remark of a US politician after what happened in Virginia Tech, maybe it was Bush but not sure: teachers should have a weapon in class to defend themselves.

Ok, now why in Europe, in countries more or less demographically and socially similar to US, like France, UK, or Germany, people don't have that claim? Why in the same time the criminal rates are higher in US than in these countries in which people can't have that wonderful defense that is a firearm? What is that?

Take your pick as to the underlying cause of crime in the U.S. (drugs, socio-economic, etc), but it's not the ownership of guns by law abiding citizens.

Oh and skip the OMGZ WE NEED TO GET RID OF GUNZ CAUZ OF MADMEN1111!  That rallying cry is old an boring.  If you want to go down that road, ask the families on the Long Island Railroad massacre if they wish their loved ones were allowed to carry?  That guy would have got one shot off in Texas, that's why he went to Long Island.  He knew no on e would shoot back.

And even if gun control does work, crime rates go down and people are safer, would it really be worth all the liberties and freedoms sacrificed to get there? Do you know what they call a state with no crime? A police state, just look at Soviet Russia where there was a nonexistant crime rate yet civil liberties were virually nonexistant. Once people start believing civil liberties should be sacrificed to produce a safer society, they go down the slippery slope into statism. One day it could be gun control, the next day it could be "speech control", the day after that it could be "thought control", the day after that it could be "sleep control" until one day it is "total control".
But let me guess, a lot of people don't believe things are worth dying for anymore. That liberty and freedom are words spoken of by generations long past, that security should be the only thing that matters no matter how many sacred human rights are violated, no matter how many otherwise innocent people are arrested. Thanks to these people, the world of 1984 described by George Orwell is becoming more and more reality with each passing day.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2009, 11:22:06 AM »

You've obviously never read 1984.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2009, 11:36:05 AM »
« Edited: July 30, 2009, 11:41:31 AM by Mechman »


(facepalm)
Moron Good sir, I spent a whole friggin summer having to read that book, annotate a gazillion passages from it, write a 6 page essay over it, and come up with 50 questions on it. Don't friggin tell me I didn't read it.
The society described in 1984 is one based off of control that thrives off of fearmongering and hatemongering among the people. Somebody shows up on everyone's tv at a certain time to make sure they exercise, there are cameras everywhere. There are even the thought police. And somehow 2+2=5. How do you not see cameras at stoplights and street corners as not 1984? How about fines on housewives for being too loud during sex? http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25379575-663,00.html
Doesn't that remind you a little bit of the Anti-Sex League described in the book?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2009, 11:40:42 AM »


Classy.

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Yes, you might well have read it, but it's quite clear that you didn't read it.
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Is it?

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Because I'm not a paranoid fool.
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