LGB Dignity Bill (Law'd)

[Хahar 🤔]

Since all these places don't work, they're fraudulent and thereby illegal.

[Purple State]

Since all these places don't work, they're fraudulent and thereby illegal.

What works is relative, just as what is the "pursuit of happiness" is relative. We think it is misguided, but some people have those feelings and seek a way to stop having them. They believe these places help. Who are we to stop them?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Since all these places don't work, they're fraudulent and thereby illegal.

What works is relative, just as what is the "pursuit of happiness" is relative. We think it is misguided, but some people have those feelings and seek a way to stop having them. They believe these places help. Who are we to stop them?

So you think it's fine for people to "willingly" submit themselves to deceptive, counter productive, and physically and psychologically harmful procedures?

[Purple State]

Since all these places don't work, they're fraudulent and thereby illegal.

What works is relative, just as what is the "pursuit of happiness" is relative. We think it is misguided, but some people have those feelings and seek a way to stop having them. They believe these places help. Who are we to stop them?

So you think it's fine for people to "willingly" submit themselves to deceptive, counter productive, and physically and psychologically harmful procedures?

Some find it counter productive and harmful not to have such options available. People shouldn't have the right to choose? I wouldn't oppose adding provisions requiring full detail of the effectiveness of the program to those who wish to sign up, as well as a disclaimer that the government disapproves of such institutions. Informed consent is fine with me, so long as we do not outright interfere with what many view as an effective and useful way to move past urges they do not wish to have, however faulty you may believe their logic is.

[Fritz]

This bill is disgusting, if people want to better themseleves why should they be denied?  What are we going to ban next, rehab clinics for alcoholics?

That you would even compare the two makes me want to spit on you if I ever ran into you in person.

I have to agree, that was absolutely disgusting.  You imply (actually more than imply) that homosexuality is a disease that those afflicted with should be cured from, if possible.  I would say these things are true about alcoholism.  Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Associations list of disorder iirc in the 1970's.

[afleitch]

I can see I've opened a can of worms here. The whole point of tabling this bill is that it was of questionable constitutionality but it raises the question of how you can legislate to protect people who are co-erced into attending these programmes and those, such as minors who are forced to. The new Senate is getting to grips with bills that have to be amended and changes etc. Introducing this was designed to see what could be done with a bill that is questionable.

Off topic, DWTL you sicken me.

[DownWithTheLeft]

This bill is disgusting, if people want to better themseleves why should they be denied?  What are we going to ban next, rehab clinics for alcoholics?

That you would even compare the two makes me want to spit on you if I ever ran into you in person.

I have to agree, that was absolutely disgusting.  You imply (actually more than imply) that homosexuality is a disease that those afflicted with should be cured from, if possible.  I would say these things are true about alcoholism.  Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Associations list of disorder iirc in the 1970's.

What I am implying is that people feel that homosexually is something that they cannot live with and want to try and help themselves, the government should not be in the business of telling them they can't just as much as they should not be in the business of telling them homosexuality is wrong.  The country is taking a dangerous path of giving not an equal field to homosexuals and heterosexuals but putting homosexuals on a pedestal

[afleitch]

This bill is disgusting, if people want to better themseleves why should they be denied?  What are we going to ban next, rehab clinics for alcoholics?

That you would even compare the two makes me want to spit on you if I ever ran into you in person.

I have to agree, that was absolutely disgusting.  You imply (actually more than imply) that homosexuality is a disease that those afflicted with should be cured from, if possible.  I would say these things are true about alcoholism.  Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Associations list of disorder iirc in the 1970's.

What I am implying is that people feel that homosexually is something that they cannot live with and want to try and help themselves, the government should not be in the business of telling them they can't just as much as they should not be in the business of telling them homosexuality is wrong.  The country is taking a dangerous path of giving not an equal field to homosexuals and heterosexuals but putting homosexuals on a pedestal

You're talking as if such treatment actually worked. It doesn't, it merely forces someone to supress a part of themselves. Therefore any institution that claims to 'change' peoples sexuality is fraudulent. Fraudulent businesses of any nature should not be allowed to operate freely or coerce people into accepting their custom.

And you still sicken me.

[Хahar 🤔]

Since it's obviously fraudulent, can't it be prosecuted as such?

[Vepres]

This bill is disgusting, if people want to better themseleves why should they be denied?  What are we going to ban next, rehab clinics for alcoholics?

That you would even compare the two makes me want to spit on you if I ever ran into you in person.

I have to agree, that was absolutely disgusting.  You imply (actually more than imply) that homosexuality is a disease that those afflicted with should be cured from, if possible.  I would say these things are true about alcoholism.  Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Associations list of disorder iirc in the 1970's.

What I am implying is that people feel that homosexually is something that they cannot live with and want to try and help themselves, the government should not be in the business of telling them they can't just as much as they should not be in the business of telling them homosexuality is wrong.  The country is taking a dangerous path of giving not an equal field to homosexuals and heterosexuals but putting homosexuals on a pedestal

You're talking as if such treatment actually worked. It doesn't, it merely forces someone to supress a part of themselves. Therefore any institution that claims to 'change' peoples sexuality is fraudulent. Fraudulent businesses of any nature should not be allowed to operate freely or coerce people into accepting their custom.

And you still sicken me.

Isn't palm reading fraudulent? Certainly you wouldn't ban that. While, yes, I do think these institutions are horrible things, the government really has no business in it. It could, in theory, violate the consitution.

Why not simply pass a resolution that disapproves of these practices?

[DownWithTheLeft]

And you still sicken me.

The only thing sickening here is your disgust for the constitution.  You feel that because your a homosexual and that others feel your lifestyle is wrong, you should be able to squash them.  Why not allow the free exchange of ideas?   Hell, I think astrologers do harm to people, but I am not going to shut them down.

[afleitch]

And you still sicken me.

The only thing sickening here is your disgust for the constitution.  You feel that because your a homosexual and that others feel your lifestyle is wrong, you should be able to squash them.  Why not allow the free exchange of ideas?   Hell, I think astrologers do harm to people, but I am not going to shut them down.

I don't give a damn about a game and it's fantasy constitution. I give a damn about you and what you said about gays wanting to 'better themselves' yet you bleat on about how terrible it is that I 'oppose' something in a game. You said something odious and now you try and turn it back on those who call you out.

Anyways, that aside this can become a general resolution if the Senate sees fit.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Someone watching stars and telling people predictions that rarely come true is comperable to brainwashing and abusing people who cannot accept themselves, sometimes by violant methods? Really?

 

 

[DownWithTheLeft]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Someone watching stars and telling people predictions that rarely come true is comperable to brainwashing and abusing people who cannot accept themselves, sometimes by violant methods? Really?

Indeed.  Some people make life decisions based on this advice, sometimes devestating.  I suggest watching the Penn and Teller special on astrology, a woman thought her child dying of lupus would be alright because an astrologer said so

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This bill is disgusting, if people want to better themseleves why should they be denied?  What are we going to ban next, rehab clinics for alcoholics?

That you would even compare the two makes me want to spit on you if I ever ran into you in person.

I have to agree, that was absolutely disgusting.  You imply (actually more than imply) that homosexuality is a disease that those afflicted with should be cured from, if possible.  I would say these things are true about alcoholism.  Homosexuality was taken off the American Psychiatric Associations list of disorder iirc in the 1970's.

What I am implying is that people feel that homosexually is something that they cannot live with and want to try and help themselves, the government should not be in the business of telling them they can't just as much as they should not be in the business of telling them homosexuality is wrong.  The country is taking a dangerous path of giving not an equal field to homosexuals and heterosexuals but putting homosexuals on a pedestal

You're talking as if such treatment actually worked. It doesn't, it merely forces someone to supress a part of themselves. Therefore any institution that claims to 'change' peoples sexuality is fraudulent. Fraudulent businesses of any nature should not be allowed to operate freely or coerce people into accepting their custom.

And you still sicken me.

For any society to remain orderly it is essential for people to supress parts of themselves. Could you imagine what a society in which every emotion, thought, whim, impulse, or worse were openly expressed? There wouldn't be any self-control or self-respect. This country has truly hit bottom and our culture of Selfishness has truly hit new levels where anything, anything at all can be justified as "self-expression". People who decide to supress this or anything else about themselves shouldn't be open to ridicule or scorn, just as those who decide to accept what they are should be likewise treated with respect.

I think that the APA was wrong to de-list homosexuality as a disorder. To say they did so willingly after much study and research is to be in-denile, they were bullied into it by the left. Would I support re-listing it, no, its far too late for that.

This bill is disgusting, if people want to better themseleves why should they be denied?  What are we going to ban next, rehab clinics for alcoholics?

That you would even compare the two makes me want to spit on you if I ever ran into you in person.

If you disagree with someone, spit on them. No wonder politics has gotten so awfull. To be a tollerant Liberal requires you to be completely intollerant of those you disagree with to the point that they need to be assaulted because of it. Whatever happen to respectfully disagreeing, to respecting the sincerity and convictions of someone else eventhough you disagree with someone else? I see several people have given a free pass to this equally sickening behavior, because they agree with the persons position, they refuse to question the persons methods. Now I know why politics in both RL and here are so rancid and it makes me sad beyond belief what has happened to the political discourse in this country.

As to the underlying bill I urge passage of the amendment. The bill as written is clearly unconsitutional, yet again we see more of the "Win by any means necessary" strategy.

I have yet to see any reason why these places don't work other then people's personal views about homosexuality coming into the mix. Again people have the freedom to disagree, no matter how counterproductive or wrongheaded, as long as they aren't hurting themselves(again matter of opinion, they see themselves as helping there condition), or anyone else we can't do a thing about it except encourage them not to through disclaimers and warnings and alike. Living in a free country is so great, we even have the freedom to hurt ourselves, to a degree(though if some of you beleive in Euthenasia I hope you won't be voting for this bill on the account of hypocracy. The same goes of those that support Marijuana legalization, support Alcohol being legal, and support Abortion)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Andrew ought to be given a stiff drink before he reads the above post.

[Purple State]

I can see I've opened a can of worms here. The whole point of tabling this bill is that it was of questionable constitutionality but it raises the question of how you can legislate to protect people who are co-erced into attending these programmes and those, such as minors who are forced to. The new Senate is getting to grips with bills that have to be amended and changes etc. Introducing this was designed to see what could be done with a bill that is questionable.

Off topic, DWTL you sicken me.

Which is why I have introduced an amendment to change the bill to be constitutional. Waiting for a vote on that.

[afleitch]

Andrew ought to be given a stiff drink before he reads the above post.

I think it's one of the saddest posts I've read on the forum in quite a long time.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Andrew ought to be given a stiff drink before he reads the above post.

I think it's one of the saddest posts I've read on the forum in quite a long time.

Indeed.

[Fritz]

Andrew ought to be given a stiff drink before he reads the above post.

I think it's one of the saddest posts I've read on the forum in quite a long time.

Indeed.

Thirded.

[Hash]

Andrew ought to be given a stiff drink before he reads the above post.

I think it's one of the saddest posts I've read on the forum in quite a long time.

Indeed.

Thirded.

Fourthed.

The comments made by some on the RPP in here have been disgusting. And I don't fully support this bill and I'm not homosexual.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up a vote on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Aye

[Marokai Backbeat]

Nay

[afleitch]

I'm going to vote Nay on the amendment, even though I have no issue with it because there has been nothing but an assumption that this bill would be unconstitutional.

I feel that I probably should comment on the consitutional aspect of this bill. I am struggling with why such a bill would be unconstitutional unless it infringes upon 'free exercise of religion', and I see no reason as to why it would. I do not see how changing peoples sexuality is a cornerstone of any religion and even if it was argued that it was, I do not understand why the state could not legislate against it if it so wishes. Some people believe that their religion entitles them to use what could be considered to be excessive physical and mental chastisment for the punishment of 'wrongdoings' , yet I fail to see how in the protection of children and vulnerable adults, it is unconstitutional for the state to say that the level of chastisment was exessive and by law, constitutes a crime. In short a man cannot get away with emotionally imprisoning and physically striking his wife because a religous book says he's allowed to and should use that level of control and force, by claiming 'free exercise of religion.'

Banning these insitutions does not affect on people's ability to practice their religion. It also does not abridge freedom of speech; they can still say that 'gays must change', they simply cannot organise institutions that claim to do such a thing.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Just wait, the Southeast will claim they don't have to follow the bill, should it pass, because they don't feel like it.