Comprehensive Sex Education

[Brambila]

Actually, the Catholic schools here give the option of abstinence sex-education or safe-sex education, most require the latter, and I'm sure it's the same way in Philadelphia.

The problem with safe-sex education is that condoms don't protect you against everything, and many STDs are contracted with or without the use of condoms. Yes, it prevents against pregnancy, but there is only one 100% effective birth control, and that's abstinence. The reason why there have been so many pregnancies in the last 30 years is because we've changed our programs from abstinence programs to safe-sex programs.

[WalterMitty]

Sex Ed is stupid. Abolish the whole concept.

correct.  this is the parent's responsibility.

there is a lot wrong with our schools.  how about addressing the dropout rate among minorities in inner-city philadelphia?  or is sex education a more important issue?

[TeePee4Prez]

Sex Ed is stupid. Abolish the whole concept.

correct.  this is the parent's responsibility.

there is a lot wrong with our schools.  how about addressing the dropout rate among minorities in inner-city philadelphia?  or is sex education a more important issue?

Uhh there is a dropout rate among inner city whites as well as minorities.  yes that is an important issue as well.  Sex ed is also an important issue that shoudl be tied into it.  A lot of this is self-esteem as well.  It's sad I see girls that are in their teens going out with guys in their early to even mid 20s that are attending CCP or working in construction.  It's pathetic, but it happens.  And who's to stop it the girl's single mother working 2 jobs?  There are a lot of problems that need to be addressed. 

[Dr. Cynic]

Seeing as I had my sex education course in High School last year, it doesn't matter to me what they do.

[Nation]

There is one noticeably disturbing trend in Northeast Philadelphia. The high amount of preganacies in Catholic high school girls compared to their suburban counterparts. The statistics in some of these schools is staggering. Someone at one of the schools told me that 76 Senior girls were prego or have a kid. That is A LOT. My younger sister at her all-girls Catholic school told me the same thing. The reason I think this happens is due to the fact the Catholic Schools themselves teach Abstinence until marriage only. I wonder why people are so dead set against this concept of comprehensive sex ed?

I should also mention that one of my fellow Northeast Dems was canvassing in Mayfair for Tim Kearney. He came across a house with an "Open the Doors to Christ' sign. The woman outright said to my friend she will never vote for a Democrat because they're pro-choice. She further stated she is liek that because her daughter got pregnant at 17 and told her to keep the baby or she would kick her out of the house.

It's amazing why certain people think like this. Any thoughts?  Now Keystone I would like a detailed intelligent answer if you were to give one besides what your Theology teacher told you to regurgitate or the harcore Republican "keep your legs closed or it's her fault" answer. 

Ive always wondered about higher pregnancy rates that come with a lack of formalized sex education at school. I know it seems simple enough, teach them and they will know. If you dont teach them they will remain ignorant. However, I Knew about condoms and the pill from OUTSIDE of my sex education classes in school. I just learned about them growing up, by talking to friends and observing the media. So my basic question is.
Do these kids seriously not know about the pill or about condoms? Do they not watch tv or talk about extensively about sex with their friends?
I mean it just seems like common knowledge to me, with or without sex education.

At my school, we've all known about sex since the 5th grade, had sex ed in 7th and 8th grade.  Have bad things happened?  Well, I think 2 pregnancies in our entire school system in the last decade.  Any kind of STD problem?  No, I don't think any more than a few cases , and they weren't that serious.  AIDS?  Hell No.  I think the worst we've had is some people get mono (the kissing disease).  It's obvious, better understanding of sex leaves everyone better off, because despite not being experienced, we know what we're doing!  This country's puritan additude on sex is extremely destructive. 

To be fair, why would people discuss themselves having STDs? There were probably a lot more cases of pregnancies, etc than you knew about.

[ilikeverin]

Actually, the Catholic schools here give the option of abstinence sex-education or safe-sex education, most require the latter, and I'm sure it's the same way in Philadelphia.

The problem with safe-sex education is that condoms don't protect you against everything, and many STDs are contracted with or without the use of condoms. Yes, it prevents against pregnancy, but there is only one 100% effective birth control, and that's abstinence. The reason why there have been so many pregnancies in the last 30 years is because we've changed our programs from abstinence programs to safe-sex programs.

Teach both

[Gabu]

Actually, the Catholic schools here give the option of abstinence sex-education or safe-sex education, most require the latter, and I'm sure it's the same way in Philadelphia.

The problem with safe-sex education is that condoms don't protect you against everything, and many STDs are contracted with or without the use of condoms. Yes, it prevents against pregnancy, but there is only one 100% effective birth control, and that's abstinence. The reason why there have been so many pregnancies in the last 30 years is because we've changed our programs from abstinence programs to safe-sex programs.

Teach both

That's what I said regarding how we do things in BC: we teach that abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure nothing bad will happen, but we also teach about the alternatives because we recognize that having every student remain chaste is not terribly likely.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

You can't just expect children to learn this stuff from the media, their peers, or their parents.  Sure, they will learn a lot, but much of it will be totally wrong.  I know when I had sex ed, we were taught that abstinence was the only 100% effective method, but told about all the other methods and given the relavant statistics for prevention of pregnancy and STDs.

The problem with "abstinence only" education is that its supposed reason for existence is to reduce pregnancy and disease, yet it doesn't teach fundamentally safe modes of sexual expression like masturbation and petting...in fact, it discourages them.  This indicates to me that abstinence programs are really only based out of religious belief, and that is something that cannot guide a public school curriculum.  Moreover, the type of parents who want their children to only learn about abstinence are also the least likely to teach their children the facts about birth control and other forms of sex themselves.   

About eight or ten years ago, I remember my church had a woman give a speech during the service one day, advocating that parents push for an abstinence-only program in our public schools.  My dad, who is an AIDS researcher and in the church folk band, went up to our priest in the middle of the mass and asked to give the other side of the argument.  Of course they wouldn't let him, but it made me very proud.

[iosip]

There is one noticeably disturbing trend in Northeast Philadelphia. The high amount of preganacies in Catholic high school girls compared to their suburban counterparts. The statistics in some of these schools is staggering. Someone at one of the schools told me that 76 Senior girls were prego or have a kid. That is A LOT. My younger sister at her all-girls Catholic school told me the same thing. The reason I think this happens is due to the fact the Catholic Schools themselves teach Abstinence until marriage only.

you are so correct about that.

abstinence is an unrealistic idea.

[iosip]

This is a great example of why the school system in this country should be privatized.

yer funny.

[opebo]

abstinence is an unrealistic idea.

Very true, for some kids.  On the other hand for a lot of others they're stuck with abstinence no matter how hard they try to escape it! <thinking with chagrin of opebo's own adolescense>

[AuH2O]

Abstinence at 14 should not be unrealistic, at least usually.

[opebo]

Abstinence at 14 should not be unrealistic, at least usually.

In my case it was all too real - unavoidable even.  To my chagrin.

[Gabu]

Abstinence at 14 should not be unrealistic, at least usually.

For some it certainly isn't; for others it may be.  It's the teenage years that most people really start to explore their bodies and their sexuality.  I figure we might at least give them the information that they need to know about it so they don't make any stupid decisions.

[Brambila]

Actually, the Catholic schools here give the option of abstinence sex-education or safe-sex education, most require the latter, and I'm sure it's the same way in Philadelphia.

The problem with safe-sex education is that condoms don't protect you against everything, and many STDs are contracted with or without the use of condoms. Yes, it prevents against pregnancy, but there is only one 100% effective birth control, and that's abstinence. The reason why there have been so many pregnancies in the last 30 years is because we've changed our programs from abstinence programs to safe-sex programs.

Teach both

That's what I said regarding how we do things in BC: we teach that abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure nothing bad will happen, but we also teach about the alternatives because we recognize that having every student remain chaste is not terribly likely.

Yes, but by allowing safe-sex alternatives is simply encouraging students. You can't say "Yes, be abstinent, but if you're going to have sex use condoms", because teens are going to say no to the former and yes to the latter. If a teenager gets pregnant, that's their problem for banging up. Teenagers have sex at a far higher rate ever recorded in history (with 89% of teens having sex by the age of 19*). Obviously, the abstinence programs are being ignored. In addition, in 1990 Uganda started using abstinence programs instead of safe-sex methods and their AIDS rate dropped from around ~25% to ~5%. Abstinence programs work.

[ilikeverin]

Actually, the Catholic schools here give the option of abstinence sex-education or safe-sex education, most require the latter, and I'm sure it's the same way in Philadelphia.

The problem with safe-sex education is that condoms don't protect you against everything, and many STDs are contracted with or without the use of condoms. Yes, it prevents against pregnancy, but there is only one 100% effective birth control, and that's abstinence. The reason why there have been so many pregnancies in the last 30 years is because we've changed our programs from abstinence programs to safe-sex programs.

Teach both

That's what I said regarding how we do things in BC: we teach that abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure nothing bad will happen, but we also teach about the alternatives because we recognize that having every student remain chaste is not terribly likely.

Yes, but by allowing safe-sex alternatives is simply encouraging students. You can't say "Yes, be abstinent, but if you're going to have sex use condoms", because teens are going to say no to the former and yes to the latter. If a teenager gets pregnant, that's their problem for banging up. Teenagers have sex at a far higher rate ever recorded in history (with 89% of teens having sex by the age of 19*). Obviously, the abstinence programs are being ignored. In addition, in 1990 Uganda started using abstinence programs instead of safe-sex methods and their AIDS rate dropped from around ~25% to ~5%. Abstinence programs work.

Well, the thing is, we're not Uganda by a long shot.

Anyway, if you lump abstinance in with other birth control, it probably makes a difference.  For instance, instead of pushing, "Abstinance means no sex!" push "Abstinance means no STDs!" and then follow it up with a disgusting, sickening slideshow with real STD pictures, then it works quite well

[Gabu]

Yes, but by allowing safe-sex alternatives is simply encouraging students. You can't say "Yes, be abstinent, but if you're going to have sex use condoms", because teens are going to say no to the former and yes to the latter. If a teenager gets pregnant, that's their problem for banging up. Teenagers have sex at a far higher rate ever recorded in history (with 89% of teens having sex by the age of 19*). Obviously, the abstinence programs are being ignored. In addition, in 1990 Uganda started using abstinence programs instead of safe-sex methods and their AIDS rate dropped from around ~25% to ~5%. Abstinence programs work.

I still maintain the position that abstinence-only sexual education is insulting the intelligence of the students.  Do you honestly believe that if you tell a group of teenagers, "Don't have sex," that they'll all just merrily comply and never have sex until they're married and in a monogamous relationship?  Attempting to scare people doesn't work either.  If it did, nobody would smoke cigarettes anymore.  It's a much better idea just to give them the facts about everything and let them make their own decisions.

Also, if 89% of teens have sex before age 19, don't you think it would be a good idea to allow them to be informed about it?  If a teenager gets a pregnancy that could have been avoided had she been informed about birth control options instead of just being told not to have sex, I could hardly say that that's 100% her fault.

Do you have any statistics from North America?  North Americans are not Ugandans.

[Dr. Cynic]

Yes. We teenagers like to hear truth, and don't like being given the run around. We are basically going to be the same people as adults, so when 40 year old people talk down to us, it just pisses us off. You'd be surprised how well the truth works.

Anyway, I'm either proud or embarassed to say I've never had sex in my life as a teenager. Most of my friends have, so it's not a kliq thing. I do stand up comedy alot at my school shows, and one of the many jokes they let me use (Surprisingly) is this one:

"Y'know, we teens are at that age where we want the playboy and porno. And I don't watch or look at porno for one very good reason. When most guys watch porn, they're aroused. Me, I get depressed."

I usually get big laughs for that one.

[Brambila]

Gabu, my point in that 89% of teens have had sex is that we have implimented safe-sex education, and we know that abstinence education DOES work and DOES decrease STDs. Now, pregnancies may not increase (since less are using condoms), but I think I'd rather have more pregnancies than people running around with STDs. In addition, I think many teenagers will learn about the burden of pregnancy and thus abstain from sex.

Lawrence, we're going to tell the truth, we're not going to lie. The truth is the risk of STDs even WITH condoms is VERY high. The truth is that premarital sex diminishes society.

[Dr. Cynic]

I'm saying truth in general. That statistic is useless to me.

[opebo]

Gabu, my point in that 89% of teens have had sex is that we have implimented safe-sex education, and we know that abstinence education DOES work and DOES decrease STDs. Now, pregnancies may not increase (since less are using condoms), but I think I'd rather have more pregnancies than people running around with STDs. In addition, I think many teenagers will learn about the burden of pregnancy and thus abstain from sex.

Lawrence, we're going to tell the truth, we're not going to lie. The truth is the risk of STDs even WITH condoms is VERY high. The truth is that premarital sex diminishes society.

Maybe we should have the lunch lady put Saltpeter in their meals.  Or arrange some sort of punishment if they have sex.  In some cultures (mostly Muslim) young women who have pre-marital sex are killed by their father or brothers. 

We could learn a thing or two from the Taliban!

[Dr. Cynic]

Y'know what, I say let them f**k each other all they want. I'll be standing in the corner jealously, LOL.

[Gabu]

Gabu, my point in that 89% of teens have had sex is that we have implimented safe-sex education, and we know that abstinence education DOES work and DOES decrease STDs. Now, pregnancies may not increase (since less are using condoms), but I think I'd rather have more pregnancies than people running around with STDs. In addition, I think many teenagers will learn about the burden of pregnancy and thus abstain from sex.

If we know that abstinence education does work and does decrease STDs, why not show me some statistics from North America?