Isn't California entertaining to watch?

[Lunar]

Well, it's not as if it isn't those 37 million people's fault.

How were any of those people, as individuals, supposed to avert the current crisis?

Well, we're not talking about them as individuals.  A lot of California's systemic problems are due to voters perpetually voting themselves less taxes and higher services, as well as voting in obstacles, like a ridiculous 2/3rds majority required for a budget, which necessarily results in nutterbutter compromises that sacrifice the long-term.

Blindly throwing Money at California right now would be a worse expense of federal money than just about anything else they can do with it.  The federal government will eventually need some of its investment money back from the places it throws money at so it won't have to cut services and whatnot to reduce the long-term deficit...and that has a real impact on people just like California firing civil servants does.  Hell, this whole thing has an impact on me -- my university fees at Cal are going to be going up next year.

[??????????]

Joke state.

[Richard]

This is SO entertaining.  I just can't myself from giggling hysterically at the misery those morons are bringing.  And the people deserve it for voting them in. 

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/17/news/economy/State_budget_woes/

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Good!  I hope you go bankrupt.  Unless you voted for a party other than the Democrats or Republicans (or Greens, or anything left) such as the Libertarian or Constitution Party, I am very happy for your troubles.  If you voted correctly, then I do feel something for you, but you should have moved out of Mexifornia a long time ago.

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It will be MOST WONDERFUL if the government can't borrow money.  Imagine them having to be responsible for your tax dollars and not waste it like a drunken sailer on hookers!  If I lived in Mexifornia I would WANT the whole government to implode.


And it is not just California!

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Nothing makes my heart warm like seeing government workers not get paid.  I hope this goes on for a long time.


Moral of the story: stop borrowing and live within your means.  *gasp* But that means no free universal health care to everyone, including the babies the Mexicans are breeding for citizenship!  Oh the humanity.

[Lunar]

I voted Libertarian for state legislature, but it's kind of hard to move out of a state while I'm still a university student, and as an in-state student, Cal is about the best deal one can get without a decent scholarship, going to an out of state school would involve paying some extra $40k.

Not that third-parties would be able to pass a budget either, Richard.


also, your post is pretty disgusting.  when we say "Mexican" here, even in a derogatory way, we say it in a way that doesn't make one shudder like I did reading some of that Mein Kampf crap

[Richard]

I have nothing against Mexicans that stay in their own country and do their own thing.  I'm kosher with that.

What I do have a problem with is them coming across the border.  I'm not even American and I can see that this is a problem.  I have a problem with them crossing the border *just* to drop a baby out so it can have American citizenship.  I have a problem with them participating in an underground economy, not paying taxes, and using all the social services offered by Mexifornia.  Your average illegal alien is a net remover from society, not a net contributor, and your daft legislature does not want to acknowledge it.

All illegals *must* be deported.

[Sewer]

Joke state.

I hope you go bankrupt.

[Brittain33]

Well, we're not talking about them as individuals.  A lot of California's systemic problems are due to voters perpetually voting themselves less taxes and higher services, as well as voting in obstacles, like a ridiculous 2/3rds majority required for a budget, which necessarily results in nutterbutter compromises that sacrifice the long-term.

Yes, I am familiar with California's structural problems. I was questioning the fairness of apportioning blame to any particular group of people. The process is broken, and the way out requires a superhuman effort to reform the entire process. A process that has people vote on contradictory and powerful initiatives like that is broken and it demands tactical voting by large numbers of people who disagree with each other to overcome these results. And certainly, many voters have just given up and don't even think about how to change the system.

This is not a personality fault of Californians. This could have happened in any state whose constitution allowed it to happen. Californians are unfortunate enough to have an initiative-friendly constitution and such a large population that retail politics is impossible. So while bailing out Californians isn't the answer, "you did it to yourself" is useless until the voters en masse reject a constitutional convention.

[War on Want]

I have nothing against Mexicans that stay in their own country and do their own thing.  I'm kosher with that.

What I do have a problem with is them coming across the border.  I'm not even American and I can see that this is a problem.  I have a problem with them crossing the border *just* to drop a baby out so it can have American citizenship.  I have a problem with them participating in an underground economy, not paying taxes, and using all the social services offered by Mexifornia.  Your average illegal alien is a net remover from society, not a net contributor, and your daft legislature does not want to acknowledge it.

All illegals *must* be deported.

What do you think about legal Mexican immigrants then?

[War on Want]

Joke state.

Maybe but it sure as hell beats most of the south.

[pogo stick]

It is not entertaining to watch the Governator destroy a once amazing state. The state is in so much debt, it would've been better to Keep Grey Davis.

Governator for President, if you hate America

[The Vorlon]

 not waste it like a drunken sailer on hookers! 

As a former member of the armed services I find being compared to Congress deeply offensive.

[Downwinder]

Is there even a serious movement to call a constitutional convention in California?  What is the process to do so?  Would everything be subject to change during a convention, including the current amendments?

[Scam of God]

I've been looking at some of the other states' budgets, and it seems to me that many of them are in worse shape than California. Many of them have debts which are proportionally larger than California's debt (for example, New Jersey's debt is much larger per capita than California's debt). And yet California's budgetary woes make national headlines, while other states' budgetary problems do not. Why is this?

I can't help but wonder if it's due to a general dislike of California among so-called "heartland" Americans; they like the idea of California being held up and pilloried as an example of fiscal irresponsibility, because it fits into their notions of the fundamental nature of California vis-a-vie the rest of America.

[bgwah]

Because New Jersey is so popular...

[Scam of God]

Because New Jersey is so popular...

It's not just New Jersey. Mississippi's debt is almost twice per head that of California's. Why isn't this being reporting on? Or would it not be politically correct to call that particular State out? If not, why not?

[bgwah]

Is there a source that lists deficit by state?

[Scam of God]

Is there a source that lists deficit by state?

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/gapmap/

Bear in mind that this site just shows the state deficits. When including private debt in the total of projected expenditures, California drops to something like fifteenth place - with Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama ranked in the top three positions, respectively. So the State deficit actually doesn't tell you everything about the financial solvency of the states; privately-held debt can swing these numbers fairly drastically. And that's what we need to focus on solving first.

[Torie]

Is there a source that lists deficit by state?

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/gapmap/

Bear in mind that this site just shows the state deficits. When including private debt in the total of projected expenditures, California drops to something like fifteenth place - with Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama ranked in the top three positions, respectively. So the State deficit actually doesn't tell you everything about the financial solvency of the states; privately-held debt can swing these numbers fairly drastically. And that's what we need to focus on solving first.

What is the significance of "private debt" whatever that means in this context, in terms of state governmental solvency?  I need more bridge work here to understand your point.  Thanks.

[paul718]

Because New Jersey is so popular...

It's not just New Jersey. Mississippi's debt is almost twice per head that of California's. Why isn't this being reporting on? Or would it not be politically correct to call that particular State out? If not, why not?

I guess because it's "expected" for Mississippi to be in trouble.  California, however, is one of our more wealthy and populous states.  The Economist's recent cover story regarding the financial situations of California and Texas is a good example.  No one cares about Mississippi...the world cares about California.

[Scam of God]

Is there a source that lists deficit by state?

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/gapmap/

Bear in mind that this site just shows the state deficits. When including private debt in the total of projected expenditures, California drops to something like fifteenth place - with Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama ranked in the top three positions, respectively. So the State deficit actually doesn't tell you everything about the financial solvency of the states; privately-held debt can swing these numbers fairly drastically. And that's what we need to focus on solving first.

What is the significance of "private debt" whatever that means in this context, in terms of state governmental solvency?  I need more bridge work here to understand your point.  Thanks.

The more private debt that is held by the citizens residing in a State, the less likely it is that State will be able to resort to levying State taxes to pay off its own debt. So while Louisiana might have a debt of "only" $1.8 billion, it's about as likely to pay that debt off as California, because of how cash-strapped its inhabitants are.

I guess because it's "expected" for Mississippi to be in trouble.  California, however, is one of our more wealthy and populous states.  The Economist's recent cover story regarding the financial situations of California and Texas is a good example.  No one cares about Mississippi...the world cares about California.

I doubt it very seriously. One never hears about the fact that, for instance, the South is the largest drain on the national debt (because it has the highest percentage of people on the dole out of any American region). It's right-wing political correctness, and it's sickening.

[paul718]

I guess because it's "expected" for Mississippi to be in trouble.  California, however, is one of our more wealthy and populous states.  The Economist's recent cover story regarding the financial situations of California and Texas is a good example.  No one cares about Mississippi...the world cares about California.

I doubt it very seriously. One never hears about the fact that, for instance, the South is the largest drain on the national debt (because it has the highest percentage of people on the dole out of any American region). It's right-wing political correctness, and it's sickening.

Because mainstream news outlets would hate to paint the right-wing in a bad light?

[Scam of God]

I guess because it's "expected" for Mississippi to be in trouble.  California, however, is one of our more wealthy and populous states.  The Economist's recent cover story regarding the financial situations of California and Texas is a good example.  No one cares about Mississippi...the world cares about California.

I doubt it very seriously. One never hears about the fact that, for instance, the South is the largest drain on the national debt (because it has the highest percentage of people on the dole out of any American region). It's right-wing political correctness, and it's sickening.

Because mainstream news outlets would hate to paint the right-wing in a bad light?

Essentially, yes. Unless you're going to fall back on the myth of the Left-Wing Librul Media Establishment, which you and I both know is garbage.

[paul718]

I guess because it's "expected" for Mississippi to be in trouble.  California, however, is one of our more wealthy and populous states.  The Economist's recent cover story regarding the financial situations of California and Texas is a good example.  No one cares about Mississippi...the world cares about California.

I doubt it very seriously. One never hears about the fact that, for instance, the South is the largest drain on the national debt (because it has the highest percentage of people on the dole out of any American region). It's right-wing political correctness, and it's sickening.

Because mainstream news outlets would hate to paint the right-wing in a bad light?

Essentially, yes. Unless you're going to fall back on the myth of the Left-Wing Librul Media Establishment, which you and I both know is garbage.

I never said that.  I agree that such a premise is garbage.  I also think it's garbage to imply that the media is in the tank for the Republicans.  It's also garbage to put forth a conspiracy theory that the media is trying to make California look bad because it isn't "right-wing".  I think most conspiracy theories are garbage...as well as conspiracy theorists for that matter (no offense, Einzige...well, yes offense, I guess).  Tell me, do you think Bush was responsible for 9/11?  Did the government fake the Moon landing?  Is Michael Jackson still alive? 

**snip conspiracy theory**

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The legislature agreed to most of Arnold's crazy ideas. Even people at Dudefest could do a better job than our joke state government.

[Scam of God]

I guess because it's "expected" for Mississippi to be in trouble.  California, however, is one of our more wealthy and populous states.  The Economist's recent cover story regarding the financial situations of California and Texas is a good example.  No one cares about Mississippi...the world cares about California.

I doubt it very seriously. One never hears about the fact that, for instance, the South is the largest drain on the national debt (because it has the highest percentage of people on the dole out of any American region). It's right-wing political correctness, and it's sickening.

Because mainstream news outlets would hate to paint the right-wing in a bad light?

Essentially, yes. Unless you're going to fall back on the myth of the Left-Wing Librul Media Establishment, which you and I both know is garbage.

I never said that.  I agree that such a premise is garbage.  I also think it's garbage to imply that the media is in the tank for the Republicans.  It's also garbage to put forth a conspiracy theory that the media is trying to make California look bad because it isn't "right-wing".  I think most conspiracy theories are garbage...as well as conspiracy theorists for that matter (no offense, Einzige...well, yes offense, I guess).  Tell me, do you think Bush was responsible for 9/11?  Did the government fake the Moon landing?  Is Michael Jackson still alive? 

**snip conspiracy theory**

Uh, no, though nice job trying to discredit me without actually addressing any of my points (you can't). Exactly where did I posit a conspiracy theory ,you loquacious twit? Point it out to me, please? All I've suggested is that, because the right-wing has painted the media as being a liberal fifth column, they now consciously avoid critiquing the right so as to avoid that label (and hence lose viewers), even where it might be beneficial. That is not a conspiracy theory, moron, though it certainly helps your side to dismiss it as such.