Bigotry towards whites

[YRABNNRM]

"Widespread" being in the OP fucked everything up.

The only reason I included it is because I couldn't think of a better word. Obviously there is bigotry  against all races on some level so I couldn't just ask the question plain and simple.

[bgwah]

Tell me more about your daily contact with African Americans. I am truly curious.

Are you really unfamiliar with where I go to school? How about the city I live in/where I hang out? We've been over this before. I'm not lecturing anyone, saying that I'm some expert in race affairs. I'm just tired of kids in lily white suburbia acting like they know so much more and have lived, worked, played, etc. in diverse areas. You've said the same thing about handwringers in Vermont.

Actually, you've refused to elaborate when I've asked you in the past. I'm aware that Philadelphia has a large black population, though I'm also aware that you live in a white neighborhood. You made it sound like your high school was almost completely lacking in blacks. From what I understand, you go to Temple which is surrounded by black neighborhoods. Nevertheless, I fail to see how that necessarily correlates to a lot of interaction with black people.

I really am just curious. What interactions with black people did you have today? Yesterday?

As the only white suburbanite (though I resent you calling me a "kid") in the Pacific Northwest who posts frequently, I cannot help but think your original comment was directed at me. Sure, you can deny it, but if I mentioned "Italian-Americans in Northeast Philly" then it would be clear who I was referring to. I suppose you may have lumped Alcon into this category as well, though he is not a suburbanite and probably has more contact with blacks than you do, so I personally doubt it.

[Keystone Phil]

Tell me more about your daily contact with African Americans. I am truly curious.

Are you really unfamiliar with where I go to school? How about the city I live in/where I hang out? We've been over this before. I'm not lecturing anyone, saying that I'm some expert in race affairs. I'm just tired of kids in lily white suburbia acting like they know so much more and have lived, worked, played, etc. in diverse areas. You've said the same thing about handwringers in Vermont.

Actually, you've refused to elaborate when I've asked you in the past.

Uh, what? That's blatantly untrue.

 

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You said I refused to elaborate and then go on to explain what I've told you?

My neighborhood is very white. My high school almost completely lacked blacks. That being said, you ignored my points about where I hang out. As for my college, yes, it's in an overwhelmingly black neighborhood. I have classes with blacks. I interact with blacks. The point is that I deal with blacks more than some kid that can count the amount of blacks he'll see in a year on his hands.

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None today. None yesterday. I did the day before though.

I'm not in school right now so my "only" interaction with blacks is when I go downtown (which is actually quite frequent). When I'm in school, however, I have little doubt that I interact/see way more than you do. Temple is ranked as the second most diverse campus in America in an almost entirely black neighborhood.

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I'm not going to deny that you're one of the people I'm talking about. Again, we've been over this. You've given race lectures before and it's silly to do so when I see and deal with more blacks than you ever have. I'm not saying that you don't interact with blacks; I'm just saying that you're in no place to tell me about race relations when you live in an area more comparable to Vermont.

[bgwah]

You said I refused to elaborate and then go on to explain what I've told you?

I suppose I should have specified--most of what you have told me does not lead me to believe you necessarily have much interaction with blacks, and thus Iam interested in what your interaction with them is.

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I don't believe you've ever mentioned it to me, so I do not feel like I can comment on the subject until you do.

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I have classes with blacks as well. It doesn't seem terribly meaningful to me, but perhaps your classes are formatted differently and there is more interaction between students.

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I've certainly seen more than ten today...

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But that's exactly what you said. You say you see more blacks in a single day than I will see in my entire life, which is absolutely ridiculous. You haven't even seen any today or yesterday. You say I live in lily white suburbia. My neighborhood is probably ~70% white. That's certainly a comfortable majority, but it's not what I would call lily white. I undoubtedly have more interaction with Asians than you do, for example. Perhaps Hispanics as well. Vermont is like 96% white...

I didn't really mean to get into such an argument. You directed a statement at me when I hadn't even posted in the thread. I was just curious and quite frankly I don't feel like I've gotten a satisfactory answer. Instead you seem to be focusing on discrediting me, which if you look at my original post really isn't necessary as I was not disagreeing (or agreeing, for that matter) with your statement in the first place.

[Keystone Phil]

I don't believe you've ever mentioned it to me, so I do not feel like I can comment on the subject until you do.

I hang out in a very diverse area. It leads to interaction (whether it be minor or major) with all kinds of people.

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I count that as interaction. Maybe I have more direct interaction given my specific classes but I think having classes with different groups of people counts as "exposure."

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Ok? Good for you. Again, this isn't a contest. I'm just saying I don't need race lectures from someone who only just started seeing blacks when he got to college.

If we wanted to make this a contest, I'd easily see more than you on an average day on campus. If I'm bored later tonight, I'm going downtown. I'll easily see more than ten.

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In a day when I'm in school, yes, I will see more blacks than you will. No contest. Saying I'll see more in one day than you will in your life was an obvious exaggeration.

Again, this is not a contest. I don't care how many Asians (or Hispanics) you see. That wasn't the point here (though, you may want to rethink that considering where I go to school). This was about white race relations with blacks.

But if we want to get really specific, the specific area I live in within my neighborhood probably isn't as white as you think it is/as I've made it out to be. There are many Orientals (OMG I'M SORRY - ASIAN!!!) in my area. So now I really doubt your claim that you interact with more "Asians" than I do. My immediate next door neighbors have two adopted Korean children. Two houses down are two Chinese families. Immediately behind my house is another Chinese family. Two doors down from them there is a little row of Chinese families.

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This isn't about discrediting you. For probably the third time, I'm not saying that you don't have interaction with other races. I just don't want to take race lectures from someone who hasn't experienced a more diverse setting.

Even before college, I've lived in a major American city and I have never been confined to my white neighborhood.

I think my initial wording was a bit misunderstood. I don't believe you don't have experience with other races. I don't believe you're confined to a lily white area. I just think it's fair to say that when we compare both of our backgrounds, I've seen and heard a lot more and I'm not going around lecturing you about race relations.

[Bono]

It does happen, but mostly by other white who want to discredit someone and refer to him as white to imply he has a limited perspective and thus his opinion isn't worth noting. Bonus points if it's a white male.

I've seen more of this than I've ever seen reverse discrimination, though it does happen.

[bgwah]

Ok? Good for you. Again, this isn't a contest. I'm just saying I don't need race lectures from someone who only just started seeing blacks when he got to college.

If we wanted to make this a contest, I'd easily see more than you on an average day on campus. If I'm bored later tonight, I'm going downtown. I'll easily see more than ten.

No, no no... I realize my original post's quoting was a little messed up (I have fixed it) but I was clearly referring to your statement that I can count the number of blacks I see in an entire year on my hands---in other words, 10 or less. I was not suggesting that I "see" more blacks than you.

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I did not mean to debate this. I simply believe that "seeing" people doesn't necessarily equates to any significant form of interaction.

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Then you should have said something like "Small black population neighborhood" instead of "lily white" neighborhood.

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I've had quite a few Asian friends. I also think it's safe to say where I live has more Asians than you, but I don't think either of us really cares about this topic.

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I hadn't even posted in this thread when you made that comment, nor do I think I'm a notorious race-lecturer. I merely asked you a simple question.

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I live in a fairly large metropolitan area as well. And no, I'm not BRTD and do not view arbitrary city limit lines as significant.

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I would agree that you have more interaction and experiences with black people and I do not believe I was ever arguing that you did not.

[Keystone Phil]

I think we settled this elsewhere. 

[Ban my account ffs!]

Where I come from, blacks make up about 0.37% of the population.  It would be nearly statistically impossible for me to get a feel for the racial tension between whites and blacks in my town.

On the other hand, there is deep seeded racism between the whites and the native americans.  However, it seems, nobody hates an Indian more than the white suburbanites from the Twin Cities.  They seem to think that all Indians get a check for $1million when they turn 18 and then huge checks every month after that because of the casinos.

If only that were true here.  Most of you haven't seen anything close to resembling the abject poverty that many native americans live in here, and while the casinos have helped greatly, reducing poverty a lot, they still struggle.

But I grew up going to pow wows because we had friends that were natives... and I just thought that everybody went to pow wows and ate fry bread and watched people dance and bought cool jewelry.  I never felt like people were giving me a weird look because I was white.

[TeePee4Prez]

Yes, just like the reverse. It's just so happens that the power structure is still predominantly white so it doesn't effect them that much. But if you look at minority majority areas it can get ugly (I'm with Flyers on that). In general 'race' relations are still nowhere near as good as we like to think.

Well, now that you mentioned me.  Wow, I'm only one of 2 Democrats who voted yes sofar, but I don't know if it's "widespread" per se.  Do I sense it?  Absolutely, but there is also bigotry of whites towards blacks that still exists.  There's even black-Hispanic prejudice back and forth.  I've come to the conclusion most, if not all, of us are inherently racist, but it will take time as we evolve as humans to be more tolerant.  I've worked at mixed race places and noticed the cateterias.  Now I've seen different races sit together, but it still seems like the whites go to one area and the blacks instinctively go to another.  Just because a lot of whites and Hispanics voted for Obama doesn't mean racial tension is dead.  Blacks will always have certain general opinions of whites and vice versa.   

[??????????]

Yes, just like the reverse. It's just so happens that the power structure is still predominantly white so it doesn't effect them that much. But if you look at minority majority areas it can get ugly (I'm with Flyers on that). In general 'race' relations are still nowhere near as good as we like to think.

Well, now that you mentioned me.  Wow, I'm only one of 2 Democrats who voted yes sofar, but I don't know if it's "widespread" per se.  Do I sense it?  Absolutely, but there is also bigotry of whites towards blacks that still exists.  There's even black-Hispanic prejudice back and forth.  I've come to the conclusion most, if not all, of us are inherently racist, but it will take time as we evolve as humans to be more tolerant.  I've worked at mixed race places and noticed the cateterias.  Now I've seen different races sit together, but it still seems like the whites go to one area and the blacks instinctively go to another.  Just because a lot of whites and Hispanics voted for Obama doesn't mean racial tension is dead.  Blacks will always have certain general opinions of whites and vice versa.   

Spot on. But be careful, they've called me 'racist' for saying the same thing.

[Keystone Phil]

Yes, just like the reverse. It's just so happens that the power structure is still predominantly white so it doesn't effect them that much. But if you look at minority majority areas it can get ugly (I'm with Flyers on that). In general 'race' relations are still nowhere near as good as we like to think.

Well, now that you mentioned me.  Wow, I'm only one of 2 Democrats who voted yes sofar, but I don't know if it's "widespread" per se.  Do I sense it?  Absolutely, but there is also bigotry of whites towards blacks that still exists.  There's even black-Hispanic prejudice back and forth.  I've come to the conclusion most, if not all, of us are inherently racist, but it will take time as we evolve as humans to be more tolerant.  I've worked at mixed race places and noticed the cateterias.  Now I've seen different races sit together, but it still seems like the whites go to one area and the blacks instinctively go to another.  Just because a lot of whites and Hispanics voted for Obama doesn't mean racial tension is dead.  Blacks will always have certain general opinions of whites and vice versa.   

Spot on. But be careful, they've called me 'racist' for saying the same thing.

The funny thing is that Flyers would probably still call a Republican a racist for saying the same. Or at least he used to a few years ago. He's said some pretty outrageous stuff regarding race relations and that was ok, in his eyes, but when I said things that weren't even remotely racist, he'd blast be for being a closet racist.

[TeePee4Prez]

Spot on. But be careful, they've called me 'racist' for saying the same thing.

I've been called both a racist (rich, clueless kids I went to college with who wouldn't know what to do if they ever actually saw a black person but they try to emulate the "gangsta" life) and a "bleeding heart lib who coddles the blacks"(former friend's dad who's a retired cop).  I state my opinions probably a little too much.  I generally take the stand that I don't try to be racist, but certain things have smacked me in the face over the course of my lifetime as well. 

The funny thing is that Flyers would probably still call a Republican a racist for saying the same. Or at least he used to a few years ago. He's said some pretty outrageous stuff regarding race relations and that was ok, in his eyes, but when I said things that weren't even remotely racist, he'd blast be for being a closet racist.

From knowing you over time, I know you're not.  I just don't like it politicized.  I know you're gonna laugh at me, but I found one of Barbara Mikulski's speeches spot on.  It more eloquently put into words what I'm thinking with a few minor tweaks:

"America is not a melting pot. It is a sizzling cauldron for the ethnic American who feels that he has been politically courted and legally extorted by both government and private enterprise. The ethnic American is sick of being stereotyped as a racist and dullard by phony white liberals, pseudo black militants and patronizing bureaucrats. He pays the bill for every major government program and gets nothing or little in the way of return. Tricked by the political rhetoric of the illusionary funding for black-oriented social programs, he turns his anger to race — when he himself is the victim of class prejudice.

[He] has worked hard all his life to become a 'good American;' he and his sons have fought on every battlefield — then he is made fun of because he likes the flag. The ethnic American is overtaxed and underserved at every level of government. He does not have fancy lawyers or expensive lobbyists getting him tax breaks on his income. Being a home owner, he shoulders the rising property taxes — the major revenue source for the municipalities in which he lives. Yet he enjoys very little from these unfair and burdensome levies.

... [T]he ethnic American also feels unappreciated for the contribution he makes to society. He resents the way the working class is looked down upon. In many instances he is treated like the machine he operates or the pencil he pushes. He is tired of being treated like an object of production. The public and private institutions have made him frustrated by their lack of response to his needs. At present he feels powerless in his daily dealings with and efforts to change them. Unfortunately, because of old prejudices and new fears, anger is generated against other minority groups rather than those who have power. What is needed is an alliance of white and black, white collar, blue collar and no collar based on mutual need, interdependence and respect, an alliance to develop the strategy for new kinds of community organization and political participation.[2]"

[Keystone Phil]

I just don't like it politicized. 

Right. You just like using Obama as a possible excuse for why black guys are more confident at clubs that you frequent. 

[TeePee4Prez]

I just don't like it politicized. 

Right. You just like using Obama as a possible excuse for why black guys are more confident at clubs that you frequent. 

You got me.  I do find that some black men see white men as weak and nonaggressive at clubs and try to move in on white women.  With a fair number of black men, a white woman is a trophy and yes, I've heard black women get pissed at it as well.  Facts are facts. 

[Keystone Phil]

I just don't like it politicized. 

Right. You just like using Obama as a possible excuse for why black guys are more confident at clubs that you frequent. 

You got me.  I do find that some black men see white men as weak and nonaggressive at clubs and try to move in on white women.  With a fair number of black men, a white woman is a trophy and yes, I've heard black women get pissed at it as well.  Facts are facts. 

"Facts are facts." I love this. It's not even that I'm denying what you're saying. It's just your arrogance that amuses me. And, of course, it's ok when you do this.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Don't know if its widespread, but it does exist among African Americans.  I have often been the victim of racism myself, either by losing a job or by being mistreated by someone who thinks that because I'm white I'm somehow responsible for things such as slavery.  It's actually rather disheartening because I have fought for civil rights and someone who sees the color of my skin believes I'm the exact opposite of who I really am. 

[TeePee4Prez]

I just don't like it politicized. 

Right. You just like using Obama as a possible excuse for why black guys are more confident at clubs that you frequent. 

You got me.  I do find that some black men see white men as weak and nonaggressive at clubs and try to move in on white women.  With a fair number of black men, a white woman is a trophy and yes, I've heard black women get pissed at it as well.  Facts are facts. 

Aggressive guys see weak guys in the club and go after their women, it has nothing to do with race.  Unfortunately white guys tend to be the weak ones, especially in a mixed race situation.

But from observation, black guys assume that a guy's white he's automatically weak.  I try to be as race neutral as possible, but an older guy in the club said to me in one of these situations that many years ago the black guy who got aggressive with white women would have been in the hospital and today's white guys are pussies.  I usually take the strategy of trying to subtly cut the black guy off if me and him are both looking at the same woman and if needed, fight.  It shows I'm not weak and usually the black guy backs off.  I've also found that a fair, but not overwhelming majority of white women appreciate what I do in that situation.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I love the generalizations and racist crap being spewed out by both sides in this thread.

"I'm not racist, but I'll string up a n when he has it comin'"

I mean.. come on, people.  At least be honest with yourself.

[nclib]

No - there may be widespread anti-white behaviors, beliefs, etc., but I wouldn't call it bigotry, based on degree and reason since it often is a reaction to the original discrimination.

[TeePee4Prez]

I love the generalizations and racist crap being spewed out by both sides in this thread.

"I'm not racist, but I'll string up a n when he has it comin'"

I mean.. come on, people.  At least be honest with yourself.

I didn't say the n-word.  You don't go clubbing/barhopping much do you?  Also have you ever been in many urban areas?  Hate to say it, but if I went into a neighborhood bar with a black majority, met someone who looked like Robin Givens and caught a case of jungle fever, you bet your ass I'd be beat up or shot.  Racism sucks, but there are certain realities in this world.  Ok, I do have a little in me.  I don't feel we should go back to segregation, I'd still vote no on the interracial marriage vote in Alabama, and I support most of the Civil Rights of 1964 Act, but I'm finding the black men are getting far too emboldened at clubs with white women and think they can walk all over white men and yeah I'm a little ticked.

[Keystone Phil]

I love the generalizations and racist crap being spewed out by both sides in this thread.

"I'm not racist, but I'll string up a n when he has it comin'"

I mean.. come on, people.  At least be honest with yourself.

I didn't say the n-word. 

After everything you say and you won't type "n?" Wow.

[TeePee4Prez]

...but I'm finding the black men are getting far too emboldened at clubs with white women and think they can walk all over white men and yeah I'm a little ticked.

Are you serious?  A black man can't have a white woman?  That's all this is?  A little racist, huh?  That's a lot racist, dude.

Did I say black men can't have white women?  No.  What I was trying to get at is there are some black men who act cocky at clubs who try overaggressively to push out white men and go for white women who more times than none aren't interested.  I notice this far more with blacks than I do whites.  The problem with it is the women are on heightened alert and now NO men can talk to them for the rest of the night.  I just get that vibe sometimes, nothing to get all huffy and puffy about and call me a racist.  This is the problem with the world today- political correctness.  That's why I admire Bill Maher.