Would you support Israel if it fell under a non-democratic government?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Just that:

Israel now, Israel forever.

Explain to me how this blind nationalism is any different from the Front Nationale in France or Slovak National Party or any of those other loony fascist parties in Europe the world. Replace "Israel" with the name of that country and you could easily have one of their slogans.

Thank you.

[Governor PiT]

As much as I'd like to think the answer is no, the honest answer is that I would support Israel as long as they remain a Jewish State.

Ben, you are such a hypocrite. How is that any differant than calling for America to be a white state?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

As much as I'd like to think the answer is no, the honest answer is that I would support Israel as long as they remain a Jewish State.

Ben, you are such a hypocrite. How is that any differant than calling for America to be a white state?

I'm not calling for Israel to become a Jewish State, even though it already is.  I'm not saying Israel should remove all non-Jews, either.  I'm saying that as long as Israel remained a Jewish State, I would support it.

Oh, and welcome back

[Governor PiT]

As much as I'd like to think the answer is no, the honest answer is that I would support Israel as long as they remain a Jewish State.

Ben, you are such a hypocrite. How is that any differant than calling for America to be a white state?

I'm not calling for Israel to become a Jewish State, even though it already is.  I'm not saying Israel should remove all non-Jews, either.  I'm saying that as long as Israel remained a Jewish State, I would support it.

Oh, and welcome back

Do you support the status quo, a two state solution, a one state solution, or ethnic cleansing as the far right supports in Israel?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Do you support the status quo, a two state solution, a one state solution, or ethnic cleansing as the far right supports in Israel?

Only the most extreme radicals would support ethnic cleansing; not even Bibi or Lieberman supports that.  I, of course, do not.  The status quo is not a good position, and cannot be maintained.  I support a two state solution, with an undivided Jerusalem as the Capital City of Israel.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

As much as I'd like to think the answer is no, the honest answer is that I would support Israel as long as they remain a Jewish State.

Ben, you are such a hypocrite. How is that any differant than calling for America to be a white state?

I'm not calling for Israel to become a Jewish State, even though it already is.  I'm not saying Israel should remove all non-Jews, either.  I'm saying that as long as Israel remained a Jewish State, I would support it.

Oh, and welcome back

So in other words if Israel launched preemptive wars of aggression against its neighbors and carried out ethnic cleansing, you would still support it

[Kaine for Senate '18]

So in other words if Israel launched preemptive wars of aggression against its neighbors and carried out ethnic cleansing, you would still support it

If Israel launched a war against Iran, I'd probably support it.  I would not support unnecessary wars of aggression, and I would never support ethnic cleansing.

Of course, if Israel ever did do that, then it would cease to be a Jewish State.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So in other words if Israel launched preemptive wars of aggression against its neighbors and carried out ethnic cleansing, you would still support it

If Israel launched a war against Iran, I'd probably support it.  I would not support unnecessary wars of aggression,

Contradictory statements.

and I would never support ethnic cleansing.

Of course, if Israel ever did do that, then it would cease to be a Jewish State.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[Kaine for Senate '18]

So in other words if Israel launched preemptive wars of aggression against its neighbors and carried out ethnic cleansing, you would still support it

If Israel launched a war against Iran, I'd probably support it.  I would not support unnecessary wars of aggression,

Contradictory statements.

and I would never support ethnic cleansing.

Of course, if Israel ever did do that, then it would cease to be a Jewish State.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Perhaps so.  In any case, I do not support ethnic cleansing, and would not support Israel if it tried to do so.

[dead0man]

As much as I'd like to think the answer is no, the honest answer is that I would support Israel as long as they remain a Jewish State.

Ben, you are such a hypocrite. How is that any differant than calling for America to be a white state?

I'm not calling for Israel to become a Jewish State, even though it already is.  I'm not saying Israel should remove all non-Jews, either.  I'm saying that as long as Israel remained a Jewish State, I would support it.

Oh, and welcome back

So in other words if Israel launched preemptive wars of aggression against its neighbors and carried out ethnic cleansing, you would still support it

Like the Arabs attempted in '48, '67 and '73?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

As much as I'd like to think the answer is no, the honest answer is that I would support Israel as long as they remain a Jewish State.

Ben, you are such a hypocrite. How is that any differant than calling for America to be a white state?

I'm not calling for Israel to become a Jewish State, even though it already is.  I'm not saying Israel should remove all non-Jews, either.  I'm saying that as long as Israel remained a Jewish State, I would support it.

Oh, and welcome back

So in other words if Israel launched preemptive wars of aggression against its neighbors and carried out ethnic cleansing, you would still support it

Like the Arabs attempted in '48, '67 and '73?

Uh, what's your point? Because of something that happened well over 30 years ago it would be OK for Israel to launch a pre-emptive attack and ethnicly cleanse its Arab citizens?

[dead0man]

No, not at all.  I'm saying that I agree with you.  It would be very hard to support someone if they launched a preemptive war of aggression with the goal of carrying out genocide....like the Arabs did in '48 and '73.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And who here has been supporting the Arab countries in those years? DWTL maybe, anyone else?

[dead0man]

After a group attempts genocide, how long does a person have to wait before they can start supporting them?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

And who is now? You're really just babbling. Funny considerin just how anti-Libertarian human trash like Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman are.

[Bono]

Yea really dead0man, there is no good side in this fight.

The arab side are terrorists who are willing to blow up innocent people and keep their people in extreme poverty because they can't move on from something that happened 60 years ago. And the Zionists are just a bunch of land grabbers who ignored arab titles of property to land and just took it all to give to Jewish immigrants. I don't see how a libertarian can support either.

I agree of course that Israel shouldn't be disbanded now, even though it should never have been established. The only solution is to either abolish the Palestinian Authority and give Israeli citizenship to every Palestinian, or to split Israel/Palestine into 1000+ city states with a free trade zone between them. 

[Earth]

I don't support Israel now, so it's style of government is largely irrelevant.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yea really dead0man, there is no good side in this fight.

The arab side are terrorists who are willing to blow up innocent people and keep their people in extreme poverty because they can't move on from something that happened 60 years ago. And the Zionists are just a bunch of land grabbers who ignored arab titles of property to land and just took it all to give to Jewish immigrants. I don't see how a libertarian can support either.

Great post that I wholly agree with.

The worst thing is that dead0man even seems to be arguing against Israeli Arabs, who would be the people ethnically cleansed. Of which pretty close to all are not terrorists or terrorist supporters, and who the terrorists consider collaborators and aren't any kinder toward than Jews.

[dead0man]

My point was against people that support the Arabs* today.  It wasn't against the Israeli Arabs and it wasn't for Israel.  BRTD asked Ben if he'd still support Israel if they launched a preemptive strike against the Arabs and I mentioned that the Arabs had done that exact same thing twice already, yet people still support them...are they horrible people like Ben would be if he supported Israel after they attempted genocide?


(or I'm just digging a deeper hole)


*not ALL Arabs, just the violently anti-Zionist.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What "people" support the Arab countries in question? A few ignorant idiots on the internet, not including anyone who posted in this thread (As DWTL has not) and a few countries for geopolitical reasons? Kind of a red herring.

As to the question how long after attempting genocide does a country become "OK", Germany and Japan were US allies by the end of the 40s.

[dead0man]

What "people" support the Arab countries in question? A few ignorant idiots on the internet, not including anyone who posted in this thread (As DWTL has not) and a few countries for geopolitical reasons? Kind of a red herring.

Aye, you are probably correct.  I may have been arguing with myself there.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good point.  (although we had good excuses for both...the Germans look like us and we needed both to fight the commies...it's worked out pretty well for everybody...that takes nothing away from your still very good point though)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Probably the best point is that the governments of both countries were hardly the same as the ones that committed genocide.

However if you look at the Arab countries, its similar. Jordan and Egypt never had a real regime change, but have made peace with Israel and still recognize it now. Iraq obviously isn't under the same government. Lebanon isn't either, and never played a big role to begin with having their own internal problems. That leaves Syria as the only Arab country under the same regime that threatens Israel, and I haven't seen anyone talk about how glorious the Syrian regime is.

[dead0man]

Aye, conceded.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

it does not matter on the government. it matters on what the problem is and how it started.