US Granted Independence by Britain - no war
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  US Granted Independence by Britain - no war
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Author Topic: US Granted Independence by Britain - no war  (Read 926 times)
Smid
Junior Chimp
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« on: April 17, 2009, 09:07:27 PM »

I don't know enough early American history to really pursue this myself, but I know that Edmund Burke argued very strongly in Britain for peace with the American colonies, prior to the war commencing. What if he was successful in swinging the opinion of the House of Commons and Britain reduced taxes and/or granted full independence?

I'd assume there'd be some kind of Parliament, such as the other former British colonies such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand (plus Canadian provincial Parliaments, Australian state Parliaments, etc). I guess also that Canada would have been incorporated into the US at some point, too.

Anyway, that's just a thought I'm putting out there. Perhaps someone with a greater knowledge of US history might like to turn this thought into a timeline?

Oh, also looked up on Wikipedia Burke's speeches on the US:

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On 22 March 1775 Burke gave a speech (published in May 1775) on conciliation with America:

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The Tory administration of Lord North (1770-1782) tried to defeat the colonists' rebellion by military force. British and American forces clashed in 1775 and in 1776 came the American Declaration of Independence. Burke was appalled by celebrations in Britain of the defeat of the Americans at New York and Pennsylvania. He claimed the English national character was being changed by this authoritarianism. To Burke Britain was fighting "the American English" ("our English Brethren in the Colonies"), with a German-descended King employing "the hireling sword of German boors and vassals" to destroy the colonists' English liberties.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 06:27:13 AM »

The United States of America becomes a Dominion (Anglo-American Dominion, or AAD for short)and remains such for decades. I can think of some big differences in history:

1. Does the Louisiana Purchase ever happen? The different America never gets to buy New Orleans and its giant hinterland from France.  I can imagine it buying a different chunk of real estate, perhaps including what  would later include parts of Texas (to the north of San Antonio, but also including what becomes Houston, Dallas, Amarillo, and Lubbock) and much of what would become Colorado, Utah, and Nevada... from Spain instead of from France, or receiving it as a reward for participation in the wars against Napoleonic France that the early America can't avoid.

2. After the Napoleonic wars, does Russia get a permanent hold on northern California? That would have some strange effects in the Crimean War, if not the Bolshevik Revolution.

3. How long does America remain a dumping-ground (like Australia) for the unwelcome minor-offenders of Britain? Such would have significant differences in American speech patterns; we Americans would sound more like Australians.

4. Abolition of slavery occurs roughly three decades early when the British government abolishes slavery.  The government makes slave owners an offer that they can't refuse -- and gives freed slaves about three decades of more genuine independence. There is no American Civil War, and no failed Reconstruction. Freed slaves get full participation in American political life with significant changes in demographic realities.

5. Does Anglo-America ever get what becomes the southwestern United States in real life? Let's start with the breakaway territory of Texas... would Mexico attract a different set of immigrants to that area less sympathetic to the Anglo-American dominion (AAD)? A Mexican leader with any sense would have attracted Irish immigrants hostile to the  AAD and people with no particular loyalty to the AAD -- Catholic immigrants from Spain, France, Germany, southern Italy, Austria-Hungary, and the Catholic portions of Imperial Russia. That of course includes Poland.  Texas becomes more like Argentina than like the USA even if it eventually splits from Mexico -- and if it ever becomes independent, its official name is spelled with a J instead of an X as the middle letter.

The troublesome slave-bringers of course never arrive in Texas.

6. I can't imagine Mexico being able to hold onto northern California during the Gold Rush.  Can you?

7. Does Commodore Perry force open the door to Japan?

8. The American Civil War and its carnage never happen. The AAD gets drawn into British conflicts -- the Crimean War and the Sepoy Rebellion.

9. World War I is very different.  With the AAD, the British Empire/Dominion is even more fearsome, and Wilhelm II might elect to act more cautiously on military entanglements  if he knows that the AAD has its forces available earlier. In real life, the German Empire has a sustainable stalemate on the Western Front until the United States is able to send fresh troops to the front.  Even if the Kaiser entangles himself with the AAD even earlier, the front is likely to be farther to the north and east -- perhaps even in German instead of French territory.  That's a huge difference.

It's also possible that the Russian Empire doesn't collapse so fast... and that the Romanov monarchy gets two critical years of life that it didn't get.  I predict that the Great War (as it was then known) ends at least a year earlier. Russian and Greek forces take Constantinople (then the name), and Russian troops take Budapest, Prague, and Gdansk. Nicholas II establishes himself as King of the Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, and Hungarians.

Vladimir Lenin gets to fester in Switzerland awaiting a revolution that never comes. Josef Stalin is hanged as a terrorist and traitor.

10. Does anyone have any guesses on how the German Far Right sees defeat in the Great War?
   
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 09:07:58 AM »

Great idea ! Smiley
Witing for the timeline.
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