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November 26, 2020, 01:38:22 AM
News: 2020 Election day live thread: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=409870.0

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  Parliamentary Bicameralism (Discussion Open)
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Author Topic: Parliamentary Bicameralism (Discussion Open)  (Read 79165 times)
Devilman88
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« Reply #125 on: April 11, 2009, 09:59:23 PM »

Sounds great, what is the next step?
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Purple State
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« Reply #126 on: April 11, 2009, 10:14:11 PM »

Sounds great, what is the next step?

I'm going to wait for some comment by other delegates and hopefully bring it to a vote tomorrow afternoon or night.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2009, 10:17:20 PM »

Sounds great, what is the next step?

I'm going to wait for some comment by other delegates and hopefully bring it to a vote tomorrow afternoon or night.

Sounds like a plan.
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Purple State
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« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2009, 02:49:39 PM »

Article _

Section 1: Regional Boundaries

1. The Republic of Atlasia shall be made up of three Regions.
2. The Senate and Parliament will hold a joint conference each June to redraw the boundaries of the Regions.
3. After conference, both the Senate and Parliament shall hold separate votes to confirm the new boundaries. Confirmation shall require a simple majority in each house.
4. In the event that a new State joins the Republic of Atlasia, the Senate and Parliament shall hold an emergency conference for the sole purpose of deciding the placement of the new State in the Regions.

Section 2: Regional Government
1. The Regions may elect a Head of State as chief executive officer. No Head of State shall be elected for a term lasting longer than six months.
2. A Region must have an Assembly of no less than three members. The Assembly shall serve as the legislative body of each Region.
3. A Region may establish a judicial body to assist in the maintenance of law and order within its boundaries. So long as no such body has been instituted, the federal Supreme Court shall serve as the arbitrating body in all disputes that arise under regional law.
4. Regions shall stand autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves as they so choose, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution.

If there is no further discussion of the above text by later tonight I will be calling a vote.
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2009, 03:19:58 PM »

I oppose it, as I've made clear earlier.
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Purple State
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« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2009, 03:54:01 PM »

I oppose it, as I've made clear earlier.

You still haven't explained how, if we allow dual office-holding, regions will serve as a drain on activity. At its lowest levels it serves simply as training grounds for new members. At its highest it can be a place of increased activity.

What's the issue? Even if they are dead it wouldn't hurt the federal level or the general game.
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2009, 04:04:43 PM »

We're not going to allow dual office holding though. It's pretty clear that that's incredibly unpopular.
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Purple State
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« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2009, 04:09:40 PM »

We're not going to allow dual office holding though. It's pretty clear that that's incredibly unpopular.

Is it? I haven't heard an uproar of dissent on it. The Amendment in the Senate didn't pass, but this is rethinking the entire system. With increased seats in the federal government dual office holding on some level will likely be necessary.
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Purple State
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« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2009, 08:15:06 PM »

Fair enough. I bring the following motion to a vote of the Convention. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain. The vote shall be open for 48 hours, at precisely 9:15pm EST on Wednesday, April 15th. I will be away at that time for the end of Passover, but certification will not include any votes after that time.

Article _ (to be numbered appropriately later on)

Section 1: Regional Boundaries

1. The Republic of Atlasia shall be made up of three Regions.
2. The Senate and Parliament will hold a joint conference each June to redraw the boundaries of the Regions.
3. After conference, both the Senate and Parliament shall hold separate votes to confirm the new boundaries. Confirmation shall require a simple majority in each house.
4. In the event that a new State joins the Republic of Atlasia, the Senate and Parliament shall hold an emergency conference for the sole purpose of deciding the placement of the new State in the Regions.

Section 2: Regional Government
1. The Regions may elect a Head of State as chief executive officer. No Head of State shall be elected for a term lasting longer than six months.
2. A Region must have an Assembly of no less than three members. The Assembly shall serve as the legislative body of each Region.
3. A Region may establish a judicial body to assist in the maintenance of law and order within its boundaries. So long as no such body has been instituted, the federal Supreme Court shall serve as the arbitrating body in all disputes that arise under regional law.
4. Regions shall stand autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves as they so choose, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #134 on: April 13, 2009, 09:06:02 PM »

Aye
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #135 on: April 13, 2009, 10:01:15 PM »

Nope (opposition to regions, etc.  don't have a problem with dual office holding)
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Purple State
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« Reply #136 on: April 14, 2009, 12:12:04 AM »

Nope (opposition to regions, etc.  don't have a problem with dual office holding)

If you have no problem with dual office holding why are you anti-region?
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #137 on: April 14, 2009, 01:20:35 AM »

Nay
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bgwah
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« Reply #138 on: April 14, 2009, 01:21:47 AM »

nay
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #139 on: April 14, 2009, 01:34:50 AM »

Nope (opposition to regions, etc.  don't have a problem with dual office holding)

If you have no problem with dual office holding why are you anti-region?

I have to concur, what exactly are you making opposition over? If you agree with allowing dual office holding what is the point of opposing regions, and furthermore, why would you even care about dual office holding if there are no offices to hold dually? Seems like a silly thing to make opposition over in my opinion.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #140 on: April 14, 2009, 01:36:41 AM »


We can always revise regional issues at a later date via constitutional amendments, we don't need to start by abolishing them altogether right away. Reducing the number of regions and allowing dual office holding is the last best option for giving hope to regional governance.
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Јas
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« Reply #141 on: April 14, 2009, 06:15:50 AM »

Reducing the number of regions and allowing dual office holding is the last best option for giving hope to regional governance.

There was a time when I thought that reducing the number of regions was a good idea, but it has since become clear that the regional system of government is unsustainable. I have not seen any evidence to suggest that the relatively marginal increase in average regional population which regional reduction will create will result in any increased activity.

All efforts at regional regeneration in recent years have seen an initial burst of procedural related activity which dissipates gradually into stagnancy. The latest example is in the Mideast. There is no doubt that the more active partipants there are keen to try and make the project work, but it is clearly becoming harder there to generate legislation and almost impossible to generate interest (as demonstrated a few times now when vacancies/elections have arisen). It is a cycle which has repeated itself again and again.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #142 on: April 14, 2009, 08:46:59 AM »
« Edited: April 14, 2009, 08:49:17 AM by ilikeverin »

Nope (opposition to regions, etc.  don't have a problem with dual office holding)

If you have no problem with dual office holding why are you anti-region?

I have to concur, what exactly are you making opposition over? If you agree with allowing dual office holding what is the point of opposing regions, and furthermore, why would you even care about dual office holding if there are no offices to hold dually? Seems like a silly thing to make opposition over in my opinion.

Because there's no reason for their existence, just as Jas has stated.  But, when the regions are inevitably kept, I would prefer we see dual office-holding, so that competent people aren't sucked into the void of regional government (or, more optimistically, to allow for a wider distribution of active citizens, so that things can happen within regional government).
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afleitch
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« Reply #143 on: April 14, 2009, 01:34:52 PM »

Nay.

What is on the table is too specific a proposal. It's not bad and has it's merits, but I can't support it. Regions 'must have an Assembly'..must they? Surely if they are retained, whether as playable entities or not it is up for regional constitutions to determine how they are to be governed?
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Purple State
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« Reply #144 on: April 14, 2009, 02:04:19 PM »

Nay.

What is on the table is too specific a proposal. It's not bad and has it's merits, but I can't support it. Regions 'must have an Assembly'..must they? Surely if they are retained, whether as playable entities or not it is up for regional constitutions to determine how they are to be governed?

That's a fair assessment. I was unsure how people would view that, unfortunately no one posts their thoughts. They simply vote and then dissent.

We really need greater participation to get something going here.
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Verily
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« Reply #145 on: April 14, 2009, 02:16:57 PM »

Nay, on general principle that Regions are a bad idea
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Franzl
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« Reply #146 on: April 14, 2009, 02:22:20 PM »

NAY for the reasons outlined by Afleitch.
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Purple State
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« Reply #147 on: April 14, 2009, 02:36:55 PM »

Fair enough. I am going to do what I did last time, stop the current vote on the motion and allow you all to actually discuss things and work it out now.

Work on a compromise, have some substantive discussion, and actually get something done guys. It's impossible to move forward if no one contributes their thoughts until the time comes to vote.
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Devilman88
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« Reply #148 on: April 14, 2009, 02:39:53 PM »

It seems to me that all the delegate are so willing to vote out ideas, but no delegate want to put ideas out there. I mean we can't even get the delegates to participate and people are pushing for Universalism.
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Franzl
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« Reply #149 on: April 14, 2009, 02:57:21 PM »

I'll get much more active again next week....my apologies, but I don't have all that much time until then as I'm back in the US visiting with family. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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