Parliamentary Universalism (Motion at Vote)

[Purple State]

This thread is for the development of a Parliamentary Universalism system of government. Please propose ideas for individual pieces of construction, rather than entire proposals. I would prefer no more than one Article (e.g. Executive, Judicial, etc.) per post maximum. I will include all pieces that have been approved in this first post as they are passed through votes.

As a reminder, the Rules of Order state that, "All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all delegates, as determined by the sign in thread, at the start of the election or vote to be valid, unless otherwise stated [in the RoO]."

Please keep debate and discussion friendly.

The following is a brief outline of this system: All participants shall be the members of a Lower House of the Legislature, and with an elected Upper House.

The Constitution

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[Purple State]

Most of what you two have said so far sounds good, but how can we make Cabinet member positions more meaningful than they are now? Even if we give them "portfolios" there is no incentive for them to participate meaningfully. They would have just as much power as current Cabinet members, which means they can't accomplish all that much.

Maybe we should eliminate the VP and then in tied Upper House votes the appropriate Cabinet member has jurisdiction over breaking the tie. That could make coalition governments and Cabinets more interesting. And also, later when we start deciding how to limit Lower House debate, perhaps the corresponding Cabinet member has the final post before voting begins.

[Purple State]

Wouldn't under this plan the regions be useless?

Not necessarily. Regions may have different opinions than the nation at large. The regions will always have a niche if they are allowed to exist. They serve as hubs for introduction to a smaller group, allow for more local politics, etc.

[Purple State]

Regions must be abolished.

Regardless, let's work on proposals for the actual government this Constitution will create.

[Purple State]

Where did Smid go?

And where is anyone else?

Should I just have a discussion with myself?

I hope that all the delegates will contribute if there is discussion. Just because someone may slightly favor universalism or non-universalism, we can all try to make the proposals as good as possible.

Perhaps discussion on the relationship between the upper and lower house would be appropriate? Or how the PM election would go? Or what to do with the regions?

[Purple State]

If there is no additional substantive discussion on this proposal by Friday at midnight EST I will call for a vote to end discussion and scrap this proposal.

The lack of participation and activity here is unacceptable.

~Presiding Officer Purple State

[Purple State]

Seriously, no one is willing to draft an article or something? Instead of repeating those ideas over and over put them into some sort of written article for people to critique and then vote on.

[Purple State]

And of course my proposed revisions are to Smid's proposal.

That seems like the most comprehensive proposal yet enumerated to me...

I can't bring anything to a vote until you present an article. Write up (or take from that link) one article and stick it up here to get debate going.

EDIT: I will try to write something up quickly so we can get something going. Expect it in the next 20 minutes or so.

[Purple State]

Article _: The House of Commons

Section 1: Formation
1. Any person who registered as a citizen of Atlasia shall serve as a Member of Parliament, herein MP, in the House of Commons, herein Lower House.
    i. Upon registering to Atlasia, they must provide:
       a. name,
       b. state of residency, and
       c. political party to which they belong, or as independent.
    ii. Any MP may change their state of residency no more frequently than once every six months.
2. The Lower House shall be presided over by the Commons Speaker, elected by the MP's, who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the Lower House and who shall have the power to break ties in the Lower House.
    i. All debate and votes shall be initiated by the Speaker. No debate shall occur without the presence of a Speaker.
    ii. The Speaker shall be required to maintain a weekly-updated public list of current members of the House who are qualified under Section 2, Clause 4.

Section 2: Powers
1. MP's shall have the power to debate and vote on Bills and Motions that come before the Lower House.
2. The Lower House shall be responsible for electing Senators to the Upper House.
3. MP's shall be responsible for electing a President, who shall be serve as the Head of State of Atlasia.
4. The qualifications to vote in the election of a Senator or the President include:
    i. a minimum total post count on the forum of 25
    ii. 15 posts in the previous 8 weeks
    iii. participation in parliamentary debate on at least two Bills in the previous 60 days
    iv. registered as a MP in the Lower House more than 10 days prior to the election.
5. Section 2, Clause 4 iii - iv. shall only be enacted after the first election of Senators and President under this Constitution. Following said election, this clause shall cease to operate.

Section 3: Confidence Votes
1. The Lower House may not conduct debate on any Bills or Motions, except for a confidence motion, without the presence a Prime Minister.
2. If a confidence motion is moved, the Lower House must cease to debate all other Bills and Motions until the motion is resolved. The motion shall last for 72 hours.
3. Confidence motions shall not be moved more often than once a month by the Lower House.
4. A confidence motion shall be deemed as carried with a vote of confidence or lost with a vote of no confidence by a majority of all MP's.
5. Immediately upon the passage of a vote of no confidence against the Government, the Senate and Prime Minister shall become vacant and new elections shall be held.

[Purple State]

Article _: The Prime Minister

Section 1: Powers of the Prime Minister
1. The Prime Minister shall serve as the Head of Government in Atlasia.
2. Any citizen may serve as Prime Minister with the confidence of the Lower House.
3. The Prime Minister, with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ministers from either of the two Houses who shall constitute the Cabinet. These officers shall be responsible for certain policy portfolios and the management of their departments. The Prime Minister shall have power to dismiss any member of his Cabinet.

Section 2: Election of the Prime Minister
1. Upon the vacancy of the office of the Prime Minister or the success of a confidence motion in the Lower House, the President shall nominate a new Prime Minister from the citizens of Atlasia.
2. Upon nomination, the Commons Speaker shall allow for 48 hours of debate and discussion on the nominee. Debate shall conclude with a final statement of intent by the nominee and a final dissent by the head of the largest opposition party, to be determined by the Speaker.
    i. The head of the largest opposition party may appoint a MP to give the final dissent in his stead.
    ii. The citizen that issues the final dissent must vote nay in the subsequent confidence vote.
3. At the conclusion of debate, a confidence motion on the nominee shall begin immediately and last for 72 hours. The motion to elect the Prime Minister shall read: “That – this House expresses confidence in [Name of Candidate] to form a Government in this place."
4. If the confidence motion is carried, the Prime Minister shall assume office upon swearing the oath of office and may immediately begin to form a government. If the confidence motion is lost, the issuer of the final dissenting opinion shall automatically be nominated for the position of Prime Minister. There shall be 24 hours of debate and discussion, followed by a confidence motion on the nominee. If the confidence motion is lost, Section 2, Clauses 1-4 of this Article shall be repeated until a Prime Minister is confirmed by a vote of confidence.

[Purple State]

So those are two parts to discuss. Get to it.

[Purple State]

I note that none of my propositions have been included in the proposed articles.

Smid's proposals give a lot of room to the lower house to determine the methods of electing the Prime Minister; I'd assume that your proposals would be debated then.

Section 2/PM article is clear on the method of election of the Prime Minister. The said method does not include any of my proposals.

I asked a number of times for universalist advocates to state their ideas in article form. No such actions were taken so I proceeded to do my best to adapt what I could.

I ask that, now that we have a number of articles out, we focus on each one individually and one at a time, rather than make a mess of them. Also, could we try to stay to a clear format for all the articles? I am willing to begin discussion on whichever article you think is most important to begin with. Your move.

[Purple State]

Okay then, I will start.

I will repost this. Anyone please quote this and show the edits you would like to make.

Article _: The House of Commons

Section 1: Formation
1. Any person who registered as a citizen of Atlasia shall serve as a Member of Parliament, herein MP, in the House of Commons, herein Lower House.
    i. Upon registering to Atlasia, they must provide:
       a. name,
       b. state of residency, and
       c. political party to which they belong, or as independent.
    ii. Any MP may change their state of residency no more frequently than once every six months.
2. The Lower House shall be presided over by the Commons Speaker, elected by the MP's, who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the Lower House and who shall have the power to break ties in the Lower House.
    i. All debate and votes shall be initiated by the Speaker. No debate shall occur without the presence of a Speaker.
    ii. The Speaker shall be required to maintain a weekly-updated public list of current members of the House who are qualified under Section 2, Clause 4.

Section 2: Powers
1. MP's shall have the power to debate and vote on Bills and Motions that come before the Lower House.
2. The Lower House shall be responsible for electing Senators to the Upper House.
3. MP's shall be responsible for electing a President, who shall be serve as the Head of State of Atlasia.
4. The qualifications to vote in the election of a Senator or the President include:
    i. a minimum total post count on the forum of 25
    ii. 15 posts in the previous 8 weeks
    iii. participation in parliamentary debate on at least two Bills in the previous 60 days
    iv. registered as a MP in the Lower House more than 10 days prior to the election.
5. Section 2, Clause 4 iii - iv. shall only be enacted after the first election of Senators and President under this Constitution. Following said election, this clause shall cease to operate.

Section 3: Confidence Votes
1. The Lower House may not conduct debate on any Bills or Motions, except for a confidence motion, without the presence a Prime Minister.
2. If a confidence motion is moved, the Lower House must cease to debate all other Bills and Motions until the motion is resolved. The motion shall last for 72 hours.
3. Confidence motions shall not be moved more often than once a month by the Lower House.
4. A confidence motion shall be deemed as carried with a vote of confidence or lost with a vote of no confidence by a majority of all MP's.
5. Immediately upon the passage of a vote of no confidence against the Government, the Senate and Prime Minister shall become vacant and new elections shall be held.

[Purple State]

I just figured mine was formatted a little more cleanly. It also basically incorporated Smid's stuff.

[Purple State]

If you could incorporate your ideas into the sort of the formatting I laid out (looks nicer IMO) then we could work from there.

[Purple State]

Just bumping this to maybe get something going. So far universalism has been greatly outpaced by the other proposals, but there seems to be some promising ideas here. Get something ready for vote and I'll bring it right up.

[Purple State]

I would just recommend that s1(4) and (5) mention the PM as well.

[Purple State]

Formatted well and makes sense, I suppose, though I still oppose the system entirely.

I'm assuming the House can introduce bills as well, yes?

The only reason why I don't like this system is because it would take away the elections, which in part is the best thing about Atlasia. That is why I think if we make more offices to fill and have more elections, active will go up.

It does place the emphasis more on a government sim rather than an election sim, which I'm not sure is the brightest idea in light of the recent uptick in election activity. One of my bigger reasons for opposing this system is not only that, it's that the House and the Senate are virtually identical bodies that only differ in size. There's no point in having an upper house in a universal system because everyone has the same powers, so there's no incentive to run for the Senate, and if you take the Senate out, you eliminate all elections. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I specifically stated I amended Smid's proposal to deal with this; the Senate is now the House who is able to propose Prime Ministers, not the House, making getting elected to the Senate a Good Thing (tm).  I'm open to more ideas for how to make the Houses less overlappy.

Ah, so ignore my last post. I think the Senate really needs to have powers far and above the House. Perhaps only the Senate can propose legislation. Although that would simply make it our current form with referendum-like governance.

You just need to give the Senate a true purpose beyond choosing the PM.

[Purple State]

Bump. Any ideas left out there? Or would Smid/ilikeverin like me to just bring the above House of Commons proposal to a vote?

[Purple State]

Ooh, I just thought of something fun about my proposal... I was thinking about what would happen if the Senate only nominated one candidate for the House of Commons to choose for Prime Minister, and considering adding in a "NOTA" option... then I realized that the House of Commons could simply do a VoNC and get rid of that Senate entirely.  That's kinda fun!

Being as I looked at that and kinda sorta understood...put it in writing in the Article.

[Purple State]

Ooh, I just thought of something fun about my proposal... I was thinking about what would happen if the Senate only nominated one candidate for the House of Commons to choose for Prime Minister, and considering adding in a "NOTA" option... then I realized that the House of Commons could simply do a VoNC and get rid of that Senate entirely.  That's kinda fun!

Being as I looked at that and kinda sorta understood...put it in writing in the Article.

The Vote of No Confidence thing is already in the Article (last clause); the NOTA clause isn't really necessary, I don't think, because Commons could just use the VoNC in lieu of NOTA.

So the net of that thinking out loud shpiel was that we can keep it as is? In that case I will give Smid untill tomorrow to comment and then I will bring your formatted Article to a vote.

[Purple State]

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I wouldn't have called for a Convention if I wanted things to stay exactly the same. But I clearly don't support such far-reaching and sweeping changes as some of you do. And I fully intend to make a case against such changes.

I would greatly appreciate your input in discussions in this board. I would recommend you pick whichever proposal you agree with most and attempt to shape it. The proposal outlines pretty much cover all the possible forms we can take. The outlines are broad enough and changeable enough to allow flexibility.

I really hope that all the delegates would contribute, discuss, debate, etc. If you don't like the way a proposal is going, make your voice heard, write your own Article. But bear in mind there are different proposals. You shouldn't argue that Universalism be less universal. Instead, ignore it and work on shaping a different proposal that you do agree with in theory, while the universalists work on their project.

[Purple State]

Should we get something moving?

If Smid could put his plan into an article? Or just tell me what to bring up and I'll do it.

[Purple State]

Should we get something moving?

If Smid could put his plan into an article? Or just tell me what to bring up and I'll do it.

Actually I'm not sure what to bring up anymore

I am largely running blind on where to direct universalism. I don't want to step on anyone's toes and appear to push an agenda that goes against the wishes of the more universalist delegates. I am relying on you and Smid to tell me what to bring forward. Just tell me what you want from the discussion thus far and I'll bring it right up to a vote.

[Purple State]

Sounds good. I hereby bring the following articles to the floor for a vote. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain on each article respectively. All numbering is simply to denote some number and is subject to change based on eventual placement. Brackets [] denote subject to change due to crafting of other Articles.

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