Voting Whilst Banned Bill (Law'd)

[Smid]

So, if a person tries to vote when they're banned from voting, they'll be banned from voting?

I suspect what was meant was that there would be additional time added on. Though that should probably be written into the bill.

I move an amendment:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[/quote]

[Smid]

     I guess I'll abstain. While it does nothing harmful, it doesn't seem to do anything useful either.

It does nothing, except, of course, to punish people who are breaching their sentence for an earlier crime committed in Atlasia.

[Smid]

     I guess I'll abstain. While it does nothing harmful, it doesn't seem to do anything useful either.

It does nothing, except, of course, to punish people who are breaching their sentence for an earlier crime committed in Atlasia.

     But since their vote would never be counted, them breaching their sentence is meaningless. That would be like punishing armed robbers by binding their hands in such a way that they could not possibly use a weapon, & then passing a law saying that they cannot possess a firearm while in this state. It's a pointless gesture.

The fact they didn't succeed is besides the point. This isn't so much like binding the hands of an armed robber, it's actually more like charging someone with attempted murder when they tried but failed to kill someone.

Binding the hands of an armed robber reflected in this sort of a Bill would be more like banning the person perminantly from the Forum, since hand binding prevents a lot more than just holding a weapon. Your example is an exageration of what this Bill recommends.

[Smid]

Your example would be more accurate if it included the precondition that they were completely unable to kill their intended victim, no matter what. Furthermore, the perpetrator was aware that they could not succeed. Any circumstance under which they would be unaware would allow them to claim mistake of fact as a defense.

So you're suggesting we shouldn't make something a crime unless we can be absolutely certain of catching everyone who commits it? If someone commits a crime and isn't caught, then they're lucky to have gotten away with it. If someone commits a crime and is caught, then they should pay the punishment for it. If they're breaching the terms of a court order - that of not voting - but they fraudulantly do so anyway, they should be charged regardless of whether or not they thought they'd get caught.

Let me state again - if someone is caught voting while banned, they're breaching the order placed on them by the courts, they're breaking the rules of the game and they should be punished accordingly.

[Smid]

     No, I'm saying that we shouldn't make something a crime unless it can succeed. Of course, this includes a clause for an attempted crime, so it is prosecutable, though just barely.

     More importantly though, your post implies that this should be treated as a probation violation, which would be rather different from the bill as written.

This crime can succeed, in fact, it's probably more likely to succeed than not succeed - the only reason Ben got caught with the Populist was because his account got hacked and the information was discovered.

[Smid]

I am a little concerned about the possibility of prosecuting a genuine mistake, as was mentioned by PurpleState. This may particularly be the case of someone who votes while banned in the final day or two of their sentence. It would in that case, I believe, be overly harsh - particularly if their voting ban concluded part-way through an election and their mistake was a matter of timezones rather than a deliberate attempt to circumvent their punishment.

Perhaps we could look at incorporating this as an amendment to the legislation banning the use of voting with a sock - that if someone votes with a sock while banned, the punishment is more severe than merely voting with a sock.

[Smid]

Perhaps we could look at incorporating this as an amendment to the legislation banning the use of voting with a sock - that if someone votes with a sock while banned, the punishment is more severe than merely voting with a sock.

     What would you suggest for the punishment in such a case?

I'm new to the Senate and haven't looked through the legislation covering that crime yet. I'll take the question on notice and respond to the Senator for the Southeast in time.

[Smid]

Aye.