flag desecration

[John Dibble]

Also, why are you so mad at Canada? Did some Canadian cheat you at poker or something. I went to Canada on a vacation a couple years ago. It seemed to be very little different from the U.S.

I don't dislike Canada. I like Canada. I HATE Canadians telling us how evil America is and how to run our affairs. To exnaderite it's a piece of cloth. To Americans it is something millions of Americans have died for. No Canadians have died for the Canadian flag.

No Americans that I have ever heard of died for a flag - they died for ideals. The flag might represent those ideals, but I'd never die for the flag itself, because it is just a piece of cloth not worth getting killed over. I'd die for the ideals though.

[Kodratos]

Also, why are you so mad at Canada? Did some Canadian cheat you at poker or something. I went to Canada on a vacation a couple years ago. It seemed to be very little different from the U.S.

I don't dislike Canada. I like Canada. I HATE Canadians telling us how evil America is and how to run our affairs. To exnaderite it's a piece of cloth. To Americans it is something millions of Americans have died for. No Canadians have died for the Canadian flag.

No Americans that I have ever heard of died for a flag - they died for ideals. The flag might represent those ideals, but I'd never die for the flag itself, because it is just a piece of cloth not worth getting killed over. I'd die for the ideals though.

That's what I meant. Our flag represents our country. It isn't a mere piece of cloth as exnaderite would suggest. The Canadian flag doesn't represent anything. I believe people should be able to burn a flag if they want, but exnaderite should understand that to most Americans, the flag isn't a piece of cloth.

[Gabu]

That's what I meant. Our flag represents our country. It isn't a mere piece of cloth as exnaderite would suggest. The Canadian flag doesn't represent anything. I believe people should be able to burn a flag if they want, but exnaderite should understand that to most Americans, the flag isn't a piece of cloth.

The Canadian flag may not represent anything to you, but to me, it represents all of the Canadian ideals that I am so proud of, such as tolerance, multiculturalism, diversity, and goodwill.  You don't have to have a massive military to have something to be proud of.

Evidently you've had some nasty run-ins with Canadians in the past, for which I apologize.  I recognize that anti-American sentiment exists in my country and I wish it didn't, but there's nothing that I or any other Canadian who disagrees with it can do about it.  We don't all feel that way.  Anger against your government may appear as anger against your country as a whole.  I don't think America is evil.  I don't like your current government, but I think America is a great country and I fully support your being proud of it.

Kodratos, I'm a better person than you, and won't stoop to personal attacks. What has Canada accomplished? Well, folks can get medicine when they need it. They also gave us Leslie Nielsen and John Candy.

Folks can't get healthcare there! There are 6 month long waiting lines to see doctors.

Last time I needed to see a doctor I was able to get an appointment within a week.

[John Dibble]

Kodratos, I'm a better person than you, and won't stoop to personal attacks. What has Canada accomplished? Well, folks can get medicine when they need it. They also gave us Leslie Nielsen and John Candy.

Folks can't get healthcare there! There are 6 month long waiting lines to see doctors.

Last time I needed to see a doctor I was able to get an appointment within a week.

As I understand things, it depends on what you need. A checkup is easy enough to get, because that only requires a general practicioner, nothing special. Surgery on the other hand you might have to wait for - if you have something deadly you'll be shoved to the front of the line, but if you have something considered minor then you will likely have to wait for it. Example(Source: The Libertarian Viewpoint) - June 2000, WWF wrestler Val Venis, Canadian by birth, crossed over to the U.S. to get hip surgery, reasons being that for his 'non-critical' surgery he would have had to wait months, possibly even years, to get that surgery in the Canadian system, even though just walking caused him pain. Another reason was that Canadian hospitals don't always have the most state-of-the-art equipment like the vast majority of U.S. hospitals do(since they have to compete with eachother).

[migrendel]

We have prided ourselves on our belief in free speech. It's really quite astounding that this freedom is conditional in the eyes of some depending on how popular it is. Freedom was not designed to be the manifestation of the tasteful or conventional. If we banned flag burning, what would it accomplish, other than betraying our Constitutional tradition? It would not stifle or make latent the anger in the voices of dissenters. It would only serve to reinforce their feelings of oppression, and ironically, they would have a very legitimate complaint.

And please, no one worry about Kodratos calling them a bad person. He has done the same to me on several occasions. I think it's his strategy of dealing with people he disagrees with, because after all, those of us to the left of Jesse Helms are just sick, immoral people who should go hang themselves.

[electcollfan]

A stupid sickening act, but I believe it is free speech. Therefore, it is protected.

[Dr. Cynic]

That sums up most everyone's opinion.

[opebo]

Not only is this obviously protected speech, its really no big deal.  People get too hung up on symbols.  The U.S. could hoist the Jolly Roger starting tomorrow and it wouldn't make any difference.

[John Dibble]

Not only is this obviously protected speech, its really no big deal.  People get too hung up on symbols.  The U.S. could hoist the Jolly Roger starting tomorrow and it wouldn't make any difference.

LOL. I just got the image of an aircraft carrier flying the skull and cross bones.

[A18]

After all, those of us to the left of Jesse Helms are just sick, immoral people who should go hang themselves.

This is the first thing you've posted that I agree with.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

It's part of freedom of speech, flag burning should not be illegal. 

[Nym90]

Flag burning should definitely be legal. The government has no right to tell you what you can or can't do with a flag that you legally own. It's a matter of personal property rights, if nothing else.

[Redefeatbush04]

I am strongly against victimless crimes. No harm comes from burning a flag, unless of course it ignites something else, or someone else but that is a different story. I believe it was NoMoreLies that said something about banning confederate flags. Not only are confederate flags a part of american history, they are a symbol of an ideology. Not necessarily an ideology of hate, rather one that believes in a weaker central government, a  coalition of states loosely bound by common beliefs. Many of those who have confederate flags display them out of prejudice. That is wrong, and extremely racist, yet it is still legal. We can not force them to be tolerant of other cultures, it is embedded in their values. If we ban confederate flags they will find a new symbol. It is not until that prejudice is carried out in actions, that they are breaking the law. Discrimination is a bitter thing in which no good can come out of, whether it be against Jews, Gays, Atheists or even those who still refer to it as the war of northern aggression. I am a true massachusetts yankee who would lay down my life to end injustice, yet I view taking away the right to display your beliefs as a greater injustice than any. I don't care what those beliefs are.

[??????????]

I am strongly against victimless crimes. No harm comes from burning a flag, unless of course it ignites something else, or someone else but that is a different story. I believe it was NoMoreLies that said something about banning confederate flags. Not only are confederate flags a part of american history, they are a symbol of an ideology. Not necessarily an ideology of hate, rather one that believes in a weaker central government, a  coalition of states loosely bound by common beliefs. Many of those who have confederate flags display them out of prejudice. That is wrong, and extremely racist, yet it is still legal. We can not force them to be tolerant of other cultures, it is embedded in their values. If we ban confederate flags they will find a new symbol. It is not until that prejudice is carried out in actions, that they are breaking the law. Discrimination is a bitter thing in which no good can come out of, whether it be against Jews, Gays, Atheists or even those who still refer to it as the war of northern aggression. I am a true massachusetts yankee who would lay down my life to end injustice, yet I view taking away the right to display your beliefs as a greater injustice than any. I don't care what those beliefs are.

Wow! Great post! I agree wholeheartedly!

[Redefeatbush04]

I read all of the posts over again today and I noticed that those who support anti-flag burning laws have no argument other than: "those people who burn flags are evil". Someone please tell me why we should ban flag burning.

[DaleC76]

^^ Air pollution?

[Redefeatbush04]

^^ Air pollution?

lol I suppose.....though I doubt staunch republicans would be that concerned about the environment.

[angus]

We've had this discussion before. Answer - yes, down with the laws on flag burning/desecration and whatnot. Even though I think it's despicable and hypocritical, freedom entails having to deal with things we dislike. Banning something merely because we dislike it opens the doors to tyranny.

they did a King of the Hill episode about this one time.

well sort of.  except it wasn't exactly flag desecration, but about toilet seat desecration.  well not exactly desecration, but water usage.  and it wasn't  exactly water usage, per se, but more like low-flow toilets versus the regular kind.  well, it really wasn't about low-flow toilets as much as it was about nepotism.  well, not so much about nepotism but rather about the city councilman's brother-in-law had a factory that made low-flow toilets, so the city councilman talked his colleagues into passing a law that required all Arlen toilets to be replaced with low-flow toilets, to save water.  Hank's wife, Peggy, has huge bowel movements, apparently, and the 3.8 gpf toilets wouldn't accomodate her excrement.  So hank ran for city council, unopposed, and then had the law overturned by filibustering them to boredom.  Sort of a nod to old what's his name.  Jimmy Stewart, I think. 

Actually, the more I think about it, the King of the Hill episode to which I'm referring wasn't really about flag desecration at all.  So, I hope no one actually read this far. 

[John Dibble]

We've had this discussion before. Answer - yes, down with the laws on flag burning/desecration and whatnot. Even though I think it's despicable and hypocritical, freedom entails having to deal with things we dislike. Banning something merely because we dislike it opens the doors to tyranny.

they did a King of the Hill episode about this one time.

well sort of.  except it wasn't exactly flag desecration, but about toilet seat desecration.  well not exactly desecration, but water usage.  and it wasn't  exactly water usage, per se, but more like low-flow toilets versus the regular kind.  well, it really wasn't about low-flow toilets as much as it was about nepotism.  well, not so much about nepotism but rather about the city councilman's brother-in-law had a factory that made low-flow toilets, so the city councilman talked his colleagues into passing a law that required all Arlen toilets to be replaced with low-flow toilets, to save water.  Hank's wife, Peggy, has huge bowel movements, apparently, and the 3.8 gpf toilets wouldn't accomodate her excrement.  So hank ran for city council, unopposed, and then had the law overturned by filibustering them to boredom.  Sort of a nod to old what's his name.  Jimmy Stewart, I think. 

Actually, the more I think about it, the King of the Hill episode to which I'm referring wasn't really about flag desecration at all.  So, I hope no one actually read this far. 

Actually, he filibustered them into actually having to use the low-flow toilets.

[angus]

...and it was all Peggy's idea, I tellyawhat.

[English]

I am against flag burning.
I know I'd find it extremely distasteful if any individual went around burning Union Jacks in the street. It's an affront to your national identity and national culture.

[patrick1]

I am against flag burning laws but I also feel it should be legal to set flag burners on fire.

[Redefeatbush04]

I am against flag burning.
I know I'd find it extremely distasteful if any individual went around burning Union Jacks in the street. It's an affront to your national identity and national culture.

it doesn't matter how you feel about it. it is free speech. For example, some people find religion distastefull, but that does not mean religion should be banned. Flag burning is part of our identity and national culture, as strange as it sounds, because our culture stands for freedom, and for liberty.

[George W. Bush]

 I think it is wrong, and Discraful. But the people that burn them shoud realize the people they are disrespecting are those who gave them the freedom to burn the.

[Middle-aged Europe]

ALL flags should be burned... except for the Canadian. :-D


Okay, seriously: I agree with those here who said that it´s free speech.